Beyond the Sirens: Ray's Journey to Helping First Responders | Ep. 87 with Ray Schufford

:: 00:00:00

Host

In this episode, I had the privilege of hosting Ray Shefford, a retired Dallas Fire Department veteran, on a mission to provide support for first responders nationwide, died. Ray's insights shed light on the often unseen challenges faced by these everyday first responder heroes. Let's dive in.

:: 00:26:19

Pat McCalla

Race. You first. Welcome to the No gray Areas podcast. Do I get to call you Sue? You

:: 00:32:05

Ray Schufford

are. My family has called me. Sure. And I definitely consider you one of my friends. Be back.

:: 00:37:22

Pat McCalla

right.

:: 00:38:05

Pat McCalla

so we're going to jump right into this. I am so excited about this podcast, this interview with you. We met two years ago, right?

:: 00:44:02

Ray Schufford

It's been about two years, and it doesn't seem like it's been that long, but it's been. It's been about two years.

:: 00:49:03

Pat McCalla

we had a mutual friend.

:: 00:50:10

Ray Schufford

Right?

:: 00:50:22

Pat McCalla

We were in Dallas and

:: 00:52:09

Pat McCalla

from Dallas. And so so let's just jump right in. Tell me a little bit about this to the next shift.

:: 00:58:19

Ray Schufford

Okay. So first and foremost, thank you once again, man, for allowing me to be all. And I always want to say thank you because this is a great opportunity to the next shelf is an organization, a nonprofit organization that I created when I actually retired from the Dallas Fire Rescue Department about two and a half years ago.

:: 01:17:16

Ray Schufford

And the organization, it's a solution based organization that I when I was in the chaplain's role for the Department, I saw so many things behind the curtain that first responders were in a way. And so when I actually left and I turned my boots in for my process per se, but, you know, and I kind of hung that up.

:: 01:38:18

Ray Schufford

But you never you never hang up your crosses, you know, That is so. Yes. You know, shortly after that,

:: 01:44:02

Ray Schufford

several guys committed suicide on different occasions and several people actually attempted suicide. So I know that I wanted to do something to help them to further what I had been doing within the fire department. And so I created to the next shelf.

:: 02:02:23

Ray Schufford

And it's a nonprofit that gives support solutions for successful pathways for first responders. So many people make don't know what first responders go through because they just don't do that type of work. And, you know, doing that for nearly three decades of my life, having some ups and downs, some some wins and losses, I just said that I knew what I had was valuable.

:: 02:27:19

Ray Schufford

So I had to give those first responders a lifeline. And they are great resources within the departments everywhere around the country. And I go around the country speaking to different places, all first responders, everywhere, just about the the pitfalls and things that can happen of being a first responder. Because when you sign up for, you really don't know what you're signing up for to you jump into it and then now it's too late and you look up and it's like, Wow, man, I got myself stuck in some in some crap, you know?

:: 03:01:05

Ray Schufford

And so that's why the organization was created. Yes, sir.

:: 03:04:17

Pat McCalla

yeah. Man, that's incredible. Rae And thank you so much for doing that.

:: 03:07:22

Pat McCalla

our whole team here at the No Gray Areas podcast. We have a huge heart for first responders. You know, we don't know community is going to function without first responders. And like you said so well, any of us that aren't first responders, we we we might have some empathy and compassion for what you all go through.

:: 03:26:12

Pat McCalla

But we we really don't know the load you all carry, What you have to see,

:: 03:31:23

Pat McCalla

the crap that you go through.

:: 03:33:22

Ray Schufford

right.

:: 03:34:18

Pat McCalla

Having an organization like this is incredible. I actually have a son who's a first responder. He's in the Marine Corps and he works for the NCIS.

:: 03:40:21

Pat McCalla

And he's just shared with me a little bit the stuff that he's gone through. I have a lot of friends are in the police department, fire department, so I get it. And I'm so incredibly thankful for that.

:: 03:51:14

Pat McCalla

So you spent 25 years with with the fire department and a lot of that as a chaplain, correct?

:: 03:57:10

Ray Schufford

Yes. So, man, I mean, I. I definitely appreciate that you get it in and definitely we'll be thanking you, you know, for your son and all the things that he deals with. You know, I like I always say that nobody thinks about a first responder until they really need a first responder.

:: 04:15:06

Ray Schufford

And so that's that's a that's just so true about it, you know, And so they go about their their regular routines and days just doing what they do. But they they rarely, you know, ask for help from other people in the community is so tight knit that you're not going to you know, you're the one that's going to help someone else.

:: 04:36:15

Ray Schufford

So you're not going to go out and like, hey, I need help. So that's where also the organization comes in to help them with the making solutions, getting a therapist, you know, and mentorship and things that will really help them along this journey of being first responders.

:: 04:54:02

Pat McCalla

Do you see that changing, Ray? That that there used to be for sure a stigma against asking for help. Like you're saying, first responders are supposed to be helping others. And so it was really hard for them to ask for help or to get therapy. Do you do you see that shifting or do you still see that as a a huge hurdle that we need to overcome?

:: 05:12:05

Ray Schufford

Well,

:: 05:13:07

Ray Schufford

ame a first responder back in: 1995

:: 05:21:02

Ray Schufford

he same things that we did in: 1995

:: 05:46:07

Ray Schufford

some and all the way through: 2023

:: 06:27:14

Ray Schufford

oing, everything was good for: 2023

:: 06:52:18

Ray Schufford

But then also to know you think you're making good headway. So it always has you to second guess. But having a podcast like yours to to talk candidly about these things that's happening and then maybe partnered up with other resources that are doing the same thing because that you can't do this all by yourself. It's all hands on deck when you're talking about the suicidal epidemic that's happening in all our communities, but just more intensely, the first responder community, you know, first responders are 2 to 3 times likely to commit suicide in actual civilians.

:: 07:29:17

Ray Schufford

Suicidal ideations are ten times higher than the regular civilian. The the divorce rate in relationships in everything is 65 to 75% amongst the first responder community. And all these things are things that attribute to this this epidemic, this problem. Because you mentioned about having things that that first responders see on a daily basis. But what about the regular day in and day out things that go on at home or your own family or just take your create your own self, you know?

:: 08:03:18

Ray Schufford

So it's a it's a grind. But, you know, these things are being put in place to help them to be better,

:: 08:09:22

Pat McCalla

And Ray, you bring up a great point because you have you know, you think of a first responder and maybe they go, I can you know, I've talked to enough first responders.

:: 08:18:02

Pat McCalla

fatality of a child is one of the worst things that you guys have to deal with, right? So they go to some car accident or something and they're dealing with the fatality of a child.

:: 08:26:19

Pat McCalla

But then they're going home to a relationship that maybe is in shambles and fallen apart and dealing with all of those things put together. It. You can see why those statistics are so terrible. And I and I'm so thankful again that you guys are doing something about that.

:: 08:41:18

Pat McCalla

I'm going to put you on the spot 25 years you worked in this, Tell me what your best day in your worst day,

:: 08:48:04

Ray Schufford

27 years. So I don't know. I got I got it. I got them two years. Mean a lot. I did get a lot of Yeah. So to put it back to what you were.

:: 08:57:22

Ray Schufford

Yeah. Yeah. So man I'm going to say probably

:: 09:01:16

Ray Schufford

one of my best days that I ever had is being and you might think I'm saving a little bit, but I'm not. Man, I actually delivered two babies in one day. It's so I know it seems crazy, but that's almost like it. That could not happen. But deliver two babies in one day.

:: 09:26:14

Ray Schufford

The babies were the babies were twins. And so the first baby first baby came out fine. Well, everything was was smooth. And me and my guys, I mean, it's already intense in a way. You know, in the energy is up, the anxiety is up is you get a called middle of the night. This young lady having a baby, boom, baby's coming out.

:: 09:49:17

Ray Schufford

You get there, you know, I teach you all this stuff. Baby comes out, I cut the core six, nine, the those everything cleaned the baby. I was like, man, we did it. And then all of a sudden, her mom comes in and says, Hey, what about the other baby?

:: 10:03:17

Ray Schufford

It was like other baby. Like, What are you talking about?

:: 10:06:22

Ray Schufford

She said, she's having twins, you know, tell you like, No, you didn't tell us you have twins in. And so we let it in, man. The other baby is not,

:: 10:15:23

Ray Schufford

you know, kind of you don't see it too much, you know. And so all of a sudden now they put see the post. So me, as soon as she pushes, man, you see two like two feet coming out and that's a bad sign because you know, the baby was a B the other way.

:: 10:30:17

Ray Schufford

So it's a breach presentation. Yeah, man, it was it was chaotic, you know? And so we my partner, man, just so happened me a phenomenal guy, man. He was he was a nurse as well. So he had a little extra training and a man we was able to deliver that baby. But when the baby came out, the baby was breathing.

:: 10:50:10

Ray Schufford

And so we had to start compressions on the baby doing for resuscitation. They everything. And a lot of time, you know, we got the Amazons there, got the baby to the hospital, did everything, man, baby, both babies doing well. And it was that was just a great moment because you see life actually coming in. Now, on the other hand, what you just mentioned about one of the

:: 11:12:22

Pat McCalla

in, before you jump into that the worst day, let me just say, that's a good day. What you just described. I mean, you

:: 11:19:00

Pat McCalla

birth these two babies, you're part of that. And then one of them, you end up being part of saving the baby's life.

:: 11:24:11

Pat McCalla

What? Amazing. That's a good day. That's a good day.

:: 11:28:01

Pat McCalla

All right. So. So what The flipside. Worst

:: 11:31:03

Ray Schufford

flip side flip side, almost pretty much the same thing, man.

:: 11:35:21

Ray Schufford

You know,

:: 11:36:12

Ray Schufford

got a call about two blocks from the station, get there. And it's a father coming out with his two year old young daughter and man, she was she was like this. And we asked him what, you know, what was going on. He said, man, I don't know. She you know, she's not breathing. Yeah. You look at it, the color was was had no, it was labor and everything.

:: 12:01:02

Ray Schufford

So you get the young lady and you know, Yes. They start doing all the stuff that you're trained to do here, you looking at it, you know there that it might be definitely a possibility that you're not going to be able to bring it back, you know, and that's up to God. I know I've had so many situations where I've done everything right and God still says, Hey, it's that person's time and I've done everything wrong.

:: 12:25:05

Ray Schufford

And the person still, you know, the fire station know three weeks later and said, Hey, you remember me? It's like, what? You was dead when I saw you last month going back to this young girl. The reason why it was like I say, one of the worst days is because, man, at that time I had a two year old daughter.

:: 12:44:02

Ray Schufford

And just the look and see that little girl. And she reminded me of my two year old daughter so much. And just to look at that, the panic and despair on their father's face was was it looked at. I'll never forget.

:: 13:01:12

Ray Schufford

could still see, you know, where the station was leaving the station. Turn it left on this particular street. And it was three houses to the right hand side. I can still remember that that was and that was well over I said 20 years ago.

:: 13:16:10

Ray Schufford

But, but days like that man or tough just because of the fact that when you can you know people they trying to teach you to detach from the moment but it's hard to detach when you are a people person and you love individual and you see this this guy with a daughter and you have the same thing at home.

:: 13:34:13

Ray Schufford

So it just makes you just really appreciate life more. Appreciate your kids, you know, appreciate your friends more, your fellowship and just what God gives you on a daily basis to do what what he's called us to do, man. It just gives you a more, better appreciation for that. So so it's been some there's been some tough days.

:: 13:54:10

Ray Schufford

So but I will just off the top of the head those are two situations that was very good in a not so good situation

:: 14:02:00

Pat McCalla

why? Why? We need to hear a story like that to raise because that

:: 14:06:01

Pat McCalla

adequately tells what you were trying to describe before that happened to you over 20 years ago.

:: 14:12:09

Pat McCalla

And you remember, it was like it was yesterday. And the first responders have that happened multiple times over and over and over again. And they're carrying that with them.

:: 14:23:14

Ray Schufford

right.

:: 14:24:05

Pat McCalla

so, again, it's it's why you know, thank you for what your organization is doing and caring so deeply and thank you that you were a first responder. Do you serve that way?

:: 14:32:10

Pat McCalla

What right. What were some of the lessons you learned? Is a is a chaplain specifically I'm talking about, because I know you serve both as a firefighter and as chaplain. But what are some lessons you learned as a chaplain? Because it really is a chaplain. You go to a call and you're serving both the victims or the survivors, the family involved, and then you go away.

:: 14:52:17

Pat McCalla

Now you're serving the first responders right? So you're carrying a heavy burden with them. But tell us some of the lessons you've learned over through the years as a chaplain.

:: 15:02:16

Ray Schufford

Well,

:: 15:04:10

Ray Schufford

first thing that I definitely would say that one of the lessons that I learned is that you you definitely have to personally you have to make sure you, like you say, care a lot of way.

:: 15:15:13

Ray Schufford

You have to make sure you take care of yourself because it makes no sense for the person who's who's whose car to take care of the heroes or the person that that's taking care of. Somebody else is not in the right space and everything. So so definitely one of the lessons that I learned personally as a chaplain was to take care of myself.

:: 15:36:20

Ray Schufford

Certainly, you know, going when you when you when you're actually going to work for you, when I say not going to work, but going to do ministry, you know, with the family, it's not always good to to to offer, you know, you know, advice or you know what, Hey, a patch man, I know we know what you're dealing with.

:: 16:01:05

Ray Schufford

I mean, that's that's probably not the best thing to say just because you you even though you may have an idea of what that family or that first responder is going through, you know, is, you know, even though you may have went through a similar situation, is still not the same situation. So, you know, I've heard people make the mistake all the time in me.

:: 16:24:07

Ray Schufford

I know exactly what you're going through. I know exactly how you feel. And then I've heard somebody come back and say, No, you don't. And then it was an awkward silence in the room and it was like, Wow, you should have try not to say it then, you know? And so

:: 16:37:11

Ray Schufford

that's a sickness. And and, you know, the the third lesson,

:: 16:42:15

Ray Schufford

you know, I would just say, man, you definitely have to be, you know, because I'm a man of faith, you definitely have to be very set up.

:: 16:51:13

Ray Schufford

Department, they actually had: 2000

:: 17:23:23

Ray Schufford

when you do that, if every if: 2000

:: 17:47:06

Ray Schufford

And then that goes back to the lesson. Number one, you know, you have to try to find time to take care of yourself. You know, and I know that's a very big department. We and at that time, we had we had two full time chaplains in May, and we were busier than a

:: 17:59:17

Ray Schufford

one legged man in a butt kicking contest.

:: 18:02:03

Ray Schufford

You know, it was so much.

:: 18:07:13

Pat McCalla

bring back good memories with that. I like that

:: 18:09:18

Ray Schufford

Yeah, so but but man, one thing

:: 18:13:05

Ray Schufford

that I really enjoyed, he was that man I got to sit and see behind the curtain close up and really kind of devise some type of plan to to help the future first responder. And and leading into that I wrote my, my newest book, my sixth book that be coming out real soon.

:: 18:35:07

Ray Schufford

It is called So you really want to be a first responder. And it's a blueprint for those who are wanting to be this first responder space, talking about some of those issues that have really caused some some trauma in my personal life and other first responders, like because I interviewed so many of them and in in and everybody say it's the same thing.

:: 18:58:08

Ray Schufford

You need this, need this, you need that, you need this, you need that. And so I just took all of that. You pretty much made a a blueprint and and test with it not only just for them, it's for the family and friends and anybody who's associated walking this journey along with them, you know. So, I mean, I'm very excited about it.

:: 19:20:06

Ray Schufford

And I've been going around speaking at different places. I spoke to a new recruit so last week in and K with my my, my, my fire and my thunder and our man the eyes would be and I said, I'm not I'm not telling you this to try to scare you off, because if you truly be called, you're going to be in this room.

:: 19:39:23

Ray Schufford

the same thing that we did in: 1995

:: 20:03:23

Ray Schufford

Back then, if you said, Hey, I think I need to go talk to somebody, I need to go see a shrink or the word they say, you know, shrink or psychiatrist or somebody, man, you don't need to do that. You may you solve your way. This job might not be for you, but guess what? I really feel like that everybody needs to have someone to talk to, to dump out of the things that this world is is given us on a daily basis, let alone being a first responder dealing with all these these other things that you have to deal with because you can't help other people's situation.

:: 20:38:00

Ray Schufford

And one of the first things in the book that I share with the first responder is that from the very first day that you get on your ship, you need to go find you a qualified therapist. And if you don't have a certified therapist, the organization can do whatever it can to help you find someone who patch you up so they can walk this journey with you step by step.

:: 20:59:01

Ray Schufford

The very first day.

:: 21:00:06

Pat McCalla

you're saying that because it's not If they're going to have to deal with crap, that's when

:: 21:04:01

Ray Schufford

Yes.

:: 21:07:18

Ray Schufford

Yes.

:: 21:08:13

Pat McCalla

with because of what they're feeling seeing in a during.

:: 21:10:12

Pat McCalla

You know, what I love about

:: 21:11:07

Pat McCalla

this conversation right now, Ray, is this is like perfect timing

:: 21:14:08

Unknown

Hey, from your No gray Areas team, we just want to say thank you so much for listening. And if you're loving this episode, would you just take a moment and leave us a review and rating on whatever platform you're listening from? If you're watching on YouTube, make sure you hit that subscribe button so you don't miss out on the new podcast episodes that drop every other Wednesday by leaving a review and subscribing, you help others discover our podcasts inspirational messages to effectuate positive change in their lives.

:: 21:40:06

Unknown

Okay, let's jump back in to this episode.

:: 21:43:03

Pat McCalla

this is like perfect timing because you're talking about this book that's going to come out and how you're really trying to help people to navigate. Okay, you want to be a first responder, but really step back and understand what that's going to bring. Just this morning, I'm reading through the gospels right now.

:: 21:55:20

Pat McCalla

Just this morning, I'm reading in Luke chapter 14, and in Luke, chapter 14, Jesus tells a couple of parables that he's counting the cost. He goes, Listen, only a fool would build a building without first figuring out what it's going to cost him. So, of course, you know,

:: 22:10:06

Pat McCalla

as a chaplain that Jesus is basically saying, hey, if you're going to come follow me, you need to count the cost.

:: 22:16:03

Pat McCalla

It's going to cost you

:: 22:17:03

Ray Schufford

Right, right.

:: 22:25:08

Ray Schufford

Wow. That's right. A spot on. And then you hit the nail on the head. And I mean, this is, you know, and I really feel like that first responders, when they jump into this first responder space, they don't know how much that it possibly can cost them, you know, and then they think about all that, you know, yeah, I could get shot or I can have wild follow me bird up, something like that.

:: 22:51:00

Ray Schufford

But they don't think about this. The the little subtleties from just really taking care of my mind. I always tell I say, Hey, man, you get your eyes checked, right? They say, Yeah, I say, you go get a physical every year. I got to say as well, every now and then, you know. So I'm like, it's perfect. But you do all these things that.

:: 23:09:15

Ray Schufford

Yeah, I do. I say, So why don't you just,

:: 23:11:07

Ray Schufford

you know, go get your the most important thing you have is this is your mind. There's nothing more powerful than a made up mind, you know? And so,

:: 23:19:19

Ray Schufford

you hit it right in the man. That's

:: 23:22:21

Pat McCalla

love that you're doing that. Hey, so on your website, one of the things it talks about

:: 23:27:00

Pat McCalla

and I'm quoting, it says that you help people make good choices, discern complex decisions, and deal with life challenges.

:: 23:34:08

Pat McCalla

Now, this is why it's perfect that you're on our podcast, because our podcast is all about the power and complexity of human choice that we make our choices, and eventually our choices make us. So it's perfect because you really feel it this next stage, this, this part of your journey that what God has you doing is helping people walking through how they make good choices, how they discern complex decisions.

:: 23:57:06

Pat McCalla

Could you give us just I mean, I'm not asking to unpack everything because I know you do life coaching, but maybe just a couple of thoughts on on tangible ways that we can become better decision makers.

:: 24:09:07

Pat McCalla

Because I like the word. I like that you use the word complex. Most decisions that we make as human beings, you know, we got the simple ones make a turn right or left,

:: 24:17:12

Ray Schufford

Right.

:: 24:18:02

Pat McCalla

talk about the big ones.

:: 24:19:14

Pat McCalla

there's a lot of complexity in there. So so give us some tangible thoughts.

:: 24:23:13

Ray Schufford

So like I got to go back to the book, you know, I it's about the one the first things was

:: 24:30:19

Ray Schufford

the counseling. But the second thing was actually the, the mentorship. So when I talk about mentorship, you know, I've had so many people in my life that I could draw from to make, you know, great decisions by asking questions. So just a tangible thing to like, say, I'm going to be where you making good decisions is being able to ask good questions and, you know, open your mouth just just and that there's a cautioning that my people always say that asking questions doesn't cost anything.

:: 25:05:07

Ray Schufford

You know, the only bad question is a question that asked. And so, I mean, I've always,

:: 25:11:18

Pat McCalla

let me just interrupt for a moment here. There's a

:: 25:13:20

Ray Schufford

good?

:: 25:21:15

Ray Schufford

I'll be correct. Correct It

:: 25:24:14

Ray Schufford

like you said, it might it might cost you everything not to ask that question, you know. And so so yeah, I've always I've always asked a lot of questions and I so I would I would just tell somebody in a tangible way to to ask questions if you don't know anything, you know, or you know if you definitely don't know it.

:: 25:43:02

Ray Schufford

You know, there are so many things out here where you can research it, You can find the answers, you know, for yourself. I always have to go back to, you know, once again, me being a spiritual guy. You said you've been being in the gospels. And I mean, I know before I start my day, when I start my day, I'm up, I'm doing my my devotion, I'm getting my my prayer and everything situated, you know?

:: 26:07:14

Ray Schufford

And and what I found is way to made a lot of first responders. A lot of people, me, they are they just don't believe. And so, you know, when I went up when I'm going out, when the organization is going out, you know, we don't care what you look like, where you come from, what you believe. We we're just there to help you as in this community at that particular time.

:: 26:33:21

Ray Schufford

Now, I've never seen anyone when at the end, like when you said, Hey, can, can I pray for us? Yeah, yeah, let's do it. I've never had anybody nonbeliever or believer that turned down a prayer,

:: 26:47:02

Ray Schufford

I asked

:: 26:50:01

Ray Schufford

man,

:: 26:59:16

Ray Schufford

my God. I mean, I prayed.

:: 27:03:08

Ray Schufford

I mean till I was blue in the face.

:: 27:05:23

Ray Schufford

I made so many people and so many people have openly just said, Hey, man, I'm like, you know that I don't believe in, in, in that that stuff. And I'm an atheist, you know. But yet it still when when they were in the hospital, when they were in a tight spot, they said when I said take it out and I ended always take an upright briefly.

:: 27:26:23

Ray Schufford

Yeah, yeah. Come on you pray for me. You know. And one great story too, is that I had a guy who I was working with and this was right before I became appointed one of the chaplain slots. It was working with him and every every shift I was the full time cook. So I would always get get my breakfast stuff out.

:: 27:50:18

Ray Schufford

I would put my my, my pad up there. I would put my gospel music on. I turn the news on now. So I have all I go on and I'm just in my zone. I'm just I'm just I'm just inviting the atmosphere, man. I'm just I'm feeling good, you know? And so he was working all the time with steps, taking the day, and he was reading the newspaper and I was seeing him over there just kind of, you know, looking everybody was saying much.

:: 28:15:06

Ray Schufford

That whole shifts went by, though, 24 hour shift. And I mean, I had seen the guy in six months or so and he worked with us another day. And when he came in, he said, Can I talk to you for a second? I said, Yeah, what's going on? He said, You know, when I was here like six months ago, and I kind of paused like, This is a loaded question.

:: 28:33:19

Ray Schufford

I'm like, Yeah, I kind of remember maybe I don't recall depending on what this is. And he said, I said, Yeah, I do remember. He said, Mean, I remember watching you in the kitchen. They use playing your music in, you know, it's like you just have a good time and watched it throughout the day, how you just kind of treated people in and how people kind of gravitated to you.

:: 28:56:18

Ray Schufford

He said, Well, I want to let you know that I was an atheist. And I said, Really? Pause for a second. And then he said, But because of some things that happened in my life and some decisions that I made now, he said, I just remember watching you that day and I'd ask somebody about you at another place.

:: 29:15:06

Ray Schufford

They say, Hey, man, that guy's the real deal. And then so I say, Hey, man, that's, that's, that's wonderful. Do so going to what you just mentioned about being like, one of my best days. That was a definitely a great day because he was lost. But the now final.

:: 29:33:15

Pat McCalla

you didn't even say anything to him,

:: 29:35:09

Ray Schufford

I didn't even say

:: 29:37:04

Ray Schufford

yeah,

:: 29:43:19

Ray Schufford

right, right, right, right. Yeah.

:: 29:47:05

Ray Schufford

I don't know what it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

:: 29:49:17

Ray Schufford

integrated thing about it not to go no longer you to a man is that. No. Right now me and him are really good friends. And when I got appointed to the chaplain's role, he called me. He said, Man, I want to hold your arms the way Josh is always and say, yeah, man, you I'm there for you.

:: 30:08:03

Ray Schufford

And he was he sent me some scriptures to read and I'm praying for you. And I'm just like, Wow, me looking like a God, you know? And so and it wasn't like you said. It was it wasn't anything that that I said so much. It was just how that I care myself. And so I'm just so thankful

:: 30:25:02

Pat McCalla

you know, Ray, you bring up another point in one of the chapters. Your books are going to hold up your books right here.

:: 30:30:09

Pat McCalla

sent a couple of books you were kind enough to send us a, a signed copy that we're going to give away to our audience. But in one of the chapters, you talk about the importance of listening. And if you've written, you're on your six books. So you they probably all run together. But do you remember the chapter I'm talking about where you talk about a hero lessons?

:: 31:15:02

Ray Schufford

right

:: 31:27:03

Ray Schufford

this that.

:: 31:28:00

Ray Schufford

Yeah,

:: 31:28:13

Pat McCalla

but I bet you spent a lot of time as a chaplain just listening a of times.

:: 31:32:10

Ray Schufford

man, man, you.

:: 31:34:07

Ray Schufford

hit it right on the head again with that and, and that's probably the best one of the best attributes that, that I've had. You know, I feel like I'm a great listener, you know, And when you go in and you, you talk to, you know, sometimes you just you just sit there and you just you just it's almost like when when jobs to friends were were with him when he was going through everything that he was going through.

:: 31:59:14

Ray Schufford

They just sat there and they just listened. They just until one of them just actually spoke up and said, man, just, you know, and hey, you know, went too far, You know, don't take that, you know. But but yeah, I mean, I mean, that's then that's, that's a really big part of, of just a ministry just being able to, to just listen here's some of that because most times what I've also noticed is that first responders, they just want somebody who understands and who's there for them because most time they're there for everyone else, but nobody's there to listen.

:: 32:32:15

Ray Schufford

I'll be there for them. But then on the other hand, that what you talk about is that you have to make a choice. It's all about making the right choice at the right time, you know. And so that's what an organization, you know, helps to build those relationships, you know, so that you can make a choice, which is happens to be the right choice and possibly at some point in time could save your life.

:: 32:57:23

Ray Schufford

Yeah.

:: 33:07:06

Ray Schufford

No, no, no. You said to so so so you remember when we first met a couple of years ago, we kind of talked about the what have business. I just turned 53 three weeks ago. Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's why we. Yeah, yeah, that's why we got along so well because we met with the same. Yeah, yeah, the same.

:: 33:28:17

Pat McCalla

But there's something interesting about as you as you age, right? As you have some more decades, more decades in your rearview mirror than you may have in your in their windshield.

:: 33:38:07

Ray Schufford

Right.

:: 33:39:03

Pat McCalla

are things more black and white as you get older or are they grayer as you get older? What do you think?

:: 33:45:05

Ray Schufford

I must say I'm almost say black or white.

:: 33:47:16

Pat McCalla

Really? Okay.

:: 33:48:15

Ray Schufford

just because of the fact that it's either you know, would me kind of like you see the yes or no. You see either good or evil or it's either. So that's like two different No, two difference. I mean, just this is clear, you know, and you said no gray areas and it's it's easy to see that you're going to you see they're going to serve or you're not.

:: 34:15:00

Ray Schufford

You either go, you know, and then here's the here's the line, here's the fence. You got to be on this side. You can't be on this side. You know, people know that that I'm a community guy. I'm about relationships, I'm about connecting, I'm about community, you know, And so I'm either going to be I'm going to be in all of that.

:: 34:35:02

Ray Schufford

And I'm not going to be. No. So especially as long as we're getting older, you know, definitely we're changing and we don't really have a lot of time to play play around in the middle. We just got to say, hey, you know what I mean? I'm going I'm going to the party. Well, I'm not. I'll stay at home, you know, So it's you know, we don't have time.

:: 34:56:15

Ray Schufford

You know, we we have too much stuff that we're doing to to benefit others and we don't have time to play games. So it's either

:: 35:03:22

Ray Schufford

or left, black or white. Yeah, that makes

:: 35:07:05

Pat McCalla

know, I. yeah, that makes total sense. And I think that's one of the gifts about getting older is when you get you said a several times, I don't have time. I don't have time. I don't have time. When you're in your twenties and thirties, you think you and you may not you but you think you got all the time in the world and and but as you get older, you just start.

:: 35:25:03

Pat McCalla

You go, I don't have time. I don't have time to mess around anymore. I don't have time. Like, I got to be serious about this. And

:: 35:45:17

Ray Schufford

right.

:: 35:49:22

Pat McCalla

in love with that book this last year, But there was a verse that stood out to me

:: 35:53:16

Pat McCalla

Solomon: 3000

:: 36:32:22

Ray Schufford

yes. And a yeah,

:: 36:34:17

Pat McCalla

Well, hey, how do people get a hold of you if you're doing some incredible work? If people wanted to get one of these books that you're talking about, if they wanted to follow you, if they wanted to, to to catch you as a speaker and have you come in to speak to their group, where were they find you?

:: 36:49:20

Ray Schufford

man, you know, I'm on, I'm on our social media platforms

:: 36:54:17

Ray Schufford

easiest route, you know, if you, if you want to get a hold of me, you know my, my website is WW w dot ray or a y chauffeured SDH You ff0rd dot com race two dot com.

:: 37:12:08

Ray Schufford

the phone number is there for: 693377

:: 37:48:15

Ray Schufford

You know, if someone needs us, if they know that if you need a first responder, which we can always take the example of the ultimate first responder, be a Christ man, you know, and he was the first responder first. So we could always have the life that we choose right now. And so but yeah, that's, that's, that's how you can get a hold of me.

:: 38:11:15

Ray Schufford

I'm on Instagram to the next year, I'm on Facebook to the next shift and I always just kind of mess around with people all the time and say, If you really want to know more about me, just Google me. So

:: 38:27:07

Pat McCalla

Okay. I challenge our audience. Google race you for Google.

:: 38:30:16

Ray Schufford

yeah.

:: 38:38:10

Ray Schufford

Okay.

:: 39:09:08

Ray Schufford

well,

:: 39:22:02

Pat McCalla

years serving, you continue to serve and you continue to serve our heroes,

:: 39:26:19

Pat McCalla

our first responders. So I just want to say thank you. We appreciate it.

:: 39:30:03

Ray Schufford

thank you. And once again, when I left as well, I felt the same way.

:: 39:35:12

Ray Schufford

And I know you reached out to me and you said, Hey, we've got to, we're going to do some, you know, and, and sure enough we, you know, two years later. But just seeing you and reconnecting with you is almost it's like we saw each other last week, man. And and I'm really honored as well, you know and I'm definitely thankful that that that you feel like that I am a hero and but because you know sometimes you know you always personally you know I'm not a hero.

:: 40:02:18

Ray Schufford

You know, that's always what people have said. But when you look at, you know, what a hero does that you going back to know what one of the books, you know, a hero hears the call, it does something about it. A hero encourages others at times. And the nurses relationships and also pays all opportunities. And that's where we all just, you know, heroes waiting to be unmasked.

:: 40:25:04

Ray Schufford

And so, I mean, I thank you for that, Ben. I love you.

:: 40:28:21

Pat McCalla

You bet. Love you, too, brother. So, two truths in a lie. It's ironic because we call this no gray areas. I'm going to ask you to lie to me.

:: 40:35:09

Pat McCalla

So give me three,

:: 40:36:07

Pat McCalla

simple statements. I got to try to guess which one the lie is.

:: 40:39:16

Ray Schufford

Okay. The first one is I was a Dallas police officer for two years before joining the Dallas Fire Rescue. The party. The second is I registered for Barber College at age 30 and received my license at 60 and has been a licensed barber for nearly 40 years.

:: 41:05:15

Ray Schufford

And the last one is I've seen the movie Forrest Gump nearly 200 times. And it's my favorite movie.

:: 41:15:04

Pat McCalla

hey, I like these. I like these. Okay,

:: 41:17:09

Pat McCalla

I'm going to go with the number two is a truth. And I'm just going with that because I actually know

:: 41:21:15

Pat McCalla

you are a barber and you have your own company.

:: 41:24:02

Pat McCalla

And is that one true?

:: 41:25:15

Ray Schufford

Yeah, that's true. That's true. That's true.

:: 41:31:19

Ray Schufford

200 times.

:: 41:34:12

Pat McCalla

But that that's an old movie. That could be. That's a great movie, though. I

:: 41:37:21

Pat McCalla

and then there's there are a lot of people I know a number of people that started with the police department went to the fire department because you call the police when the police are called in, usually people do want to see them.

:: 41:49:20

Pat McCalla

You

:: 41:50:02

Ray Schufford

Right, right, right.

:: 41:59:10

Ray Schufford

So are you saying that I was not a Dallas police officer two years that is you. You are you are correct. Among though.

:: 42:13:06

Ray Schufford

Forrest Gump is my absolute favorite movie.

:: 42:16:20

Ray Schufford

Me and my family take a RV road trip excursion this past summer up to Charleston, South Carolina, where we sat on the beach where Forrest Gump actually was filmed waiting for the bus. And and so that's definitely one of my favorite movies. And I've seen it over 200 times, easily, whatever. But I was not a Dallas police officer before I became a firefighter.

:: 42:43:23

Ray Schufford

Yeah.

:: 42:46:15

Ray Schufford

yeah, Yeah. yeah, yeah.

:: 43:03:00

Ray Schufford

Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah it is. It is. It really is. Yeah. And one thing, I mean, I'm a I'm a movie buff and I love to just watch different different movies and see different camera angles. But, you know, once again, as we get older, you start to I every time I look at Forrest Gump, something else sticks out that I'll see, I hear.

:: 43:24:15

Ray Schufford

And I'm like, Wow, I didn't really pay attention to that. But then, now guess what? Because we're in different spaces with different areas of our lives, it's easy to to, to miss something When you were 20 some years ago versus now being 50 years old. And so now I.

:: 43:42:13

Ray Schufford

I love.

:: 43:53:19

Ray Schufford

Thank you,

:: 44:06:13

Ray Schufford

man. Thank you, man.

:: 44:08:07

Ray Schufford

It's been a pleasure and honor. And, you know, to all the listeners and people involved with your, you know, your staff, I mean, I'll be praying for them and they have to look forward to, you know, to hearing back. Be so proud.

:: 44:23:05

Host

What a transformational episode that was with Ray. If you want to learn more about the impact Ray is making, visit Ray Schaefer dot com or to the next shift dot org too. What's the numerical number? Remember to like, follow and subscribe. We'll see you next time. No grey areas.