How to Win the Race: Steps on Living a Structured Life | Ep. 95 with Brent & Shannon Hatchett
Join us on this special episode of the No Grey Areas Podcast as we welcome Shannon Hatchett, the sprinting head coach at ASU, alongside her husband, Brent Hatchett. Shannon brings her expertise as a former D1 hurdler and sprinter at Florida State University, sharing insights into the mindset required for athletic success.
In this episode, we dive deep into the world of collegiate athletics, exploring the unique challenges athletes face, including self-doubt and mental health. Shannon emphasizes the importance of overcoming mental barriers and finding strength in faith, encouraging athletes to look beyond their limitations.
We also discuss practical tips for living a balanced life. Brent shares his struggles with leadership and how he’s learned to slow down and be present, while Shannon offers wisdom on creating intentional habits and maintaining structure at home. Together, they emphasize the power of positive self-talk, family values, and spiritual growth to win life’s race!
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No Grey Areas is a motivational podcast with captivating guests centered around how our choices humanize, empower, and define who we become. This podcast is inspired by the cautionary tale, No Grey Areas, written by Joseph Gagliano. Learn more about the truth behind his story involved with sports' biggest scandal at nogreyareas.com
Transcript
Host
Today we have a special podcast episode with ASU track coach, former college athlete, mother and wife Shannon Hatchett. Joining me as a co-host, we have her husband, my dear friend Brant Hatchett. We discuss all the realms of work life balance, being a parent, the mindset of a college athlete, and practical tips how to slow down in our busy lives.
::Host
Let's get started.
::Pat McCalla
well, Brant and Shannon Hatchett, welcome to the No Gray Areas podcast. Brant, you're going to be kind of my co-host
::Brent Hatchett
today.
::Brent Hatchett
Let's go really
::Pat McCalla
interviewing Shannon today and
::Pat McCalla
we're going to jump right in. But you're a coach at ASU.
::Pat McCalla
How long have you been coaching there.
::Shannon Hatchett
so August will be five years
::Pat McCalla
coached the sprinters,
::Shannon Hatchett
Yep. Sprinters and hurdlers.
::Pat McCalla
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
So part of what I want to do is jump into the mindset of an athlete because this podcast is all about the power and complexity of human choice, that we make our choices and eventually our choices make us. And
::Pat McCalla
I coached, but not in a much lower level than your coaching at was a
::Shannon Hatchett
high level in Montana.
::Shannon Hatchett
Florida,
::Shannon Hatchett
I am not a Gators fan. I'm a Seminole. I went to Florida State University.
::Pat McCalla
And there's a big distinction between
::Shannon Hatchett
those.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yes. Yep. Yeah, I get it a lot when people are like, oh, you're from Florida. So the Florida Gators. No, we're biggest enemies.
::Shannon Hatchett
Why why are they
::Pat McCalla
Gators. Because that is everybody thinks of the Gators right away. And I probably can get in trouble for saying that to you. But
::Pat McCalla
what is it about Florida where that's that's the school, isn't it?
::Shannon Hatchett
Honestly, I really don't know. I think it's just University of Florida. It's just easier when you say Florida, whereas it's like, okay, Florida State. So I don't I don't know, I think it's just a preference because they're both kind of North Florida area. Yeah. Like they're two hours apart. Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
So
::Pat McCalla
and you actually grew up around where the Gators
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah I grew up in Gainesville, Florida.
::Shannon Hatchett
I don't know where you were.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah, I actually kind of were. So you could call me a little bit of a traitor, but
::Shannon Hatchett
I really wanted to get out of Gainesville. I didn't go very far. Clearly two hours up the road, but, I definitely don't regret being a Seminole at all.
::Pat McCalla
did you choose that school was a based on coaching or any like, did you meet the coaches or was it the school or the coaches? What what drew you up
::Shannon Hatchett
there? I think it was the coaches. I think my high school coach, she knew one of the coaches there, and I connected with her, and
::Pat McCalla
Well, any I mean, I used to coach at the high school level and, but that I recognize some of the few of the athletes that I coached made it to Division one. Any college level.
::Pat McCalla
I mean, it's almost a full time job for you, isn't it, as a, as a college athlete.
::Shannon Hatchett
it is.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yes.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah. So did you pick did you choose right.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yes I did no I, I still talk to she's actually one of my mentors my coach from college. Yes. Carla, whenever I need advice.
::Brent Hatchett
Now I got to ask this question. I know.
::Brent Hatchett
You look at any time you want out of.
::Brent Hatchett
all the schools in Florida,
::Shannon Hatchett
which one
::Shannon Hatchett
The most swag? Florida State, by far.
::Shannon Hatchett
I know what he's thinking, but.
::Shannon Hatchett
Why do you like I.
::Shannon Hatchett
Mean, I'm not lying. I'm giving my honest opinion.
::Shannon Hatchett
Hey, so you're saying.
::Shannon Hatchett
No, he's not. He's talking about the you.
::Shannon Hatchett
Not out to the. You know.
::Shannon Hatchett
I don't even know who they are.
::Shannon Hatchett
The University of Miami. Okay?
::Shannon Hatchett
I'm not going to say the disrespect. Yeah, yeah. And also shout out to the Rattlers.
::Shannon Hatchett
By the way, I.
::Shannon Hatchett
Actually graduate.
::Shannon Hatchett
Of.
::Shannon Hatchett
University, but it's not about me. It's a bunch of you, right?
::Pat McCalla
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
So, so you went there, sprinting
::Shannon Hatchett
Yes. Sprinter. A hurdler and hurdler. Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
High school.
::Pat McCalla
to the 400 hurdles
::Pat McCalla
now for our audience that maybe didn't do track. We were talking before we turned the mics. I'm convinced the most painful race there is is either the 400 or the 800.
::Pat McCalla
That's one lap around the track or two laps around the track. And the reason those are so painful is like the 400, somewhat the 800. But it's just you're just supposed to sprint that whole thing. It's not like you're pacing yourself. You just sprint it. But then hurdles, you put things that you have to jump over in the middle of that.
::Shannon Hatchett
That's
::Shannon Hatchett
because it takes your, like, you have to attack the hurdles if you run the event. Right. So whereas when your legs might start to feel lactic, it takes your mind off of that because you got to jump over that hurdle. Whereas when you're just running open, that's all you feel. There's nothing to block, that feeling that you're feeling.
::Shannon Hatchett
So sometimes it can be a little easier is what I found for 400 hurdlers.
::Pat McCalla
Well when you said that that makes sense. There's probably we could come up with a,
::Shannon Hatchett
I'm sure. Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
Because if there's a
::Shannon Hatchett
down the line.
::Shannon Hatchett
A straight.
::Shannon Hatchett
Long ways to go. But
::Pat McCalla
when there's a
::Shannon Hatchett
Hurdle, you know you're a.
::Shannon Hatchett
Little
::Pat McCalla
closer to you, and you're saying that makes it
::Pat McCalla
maybe a
::Shannon Hatchett
little easier.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yes. That's a mindset you can use to deal with it, for sure.
::Shannon Hatchett
I never thought about that
::Shannon Hatchett
crazy. We talked about
::Pat McCalla
that when you when when you become lactic again. Some of our audience, maybe they didn't do athletics, but, you know, if they just go to the gym and they work out, they know what that
::Shannon Hatchett
muscles fatigue.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
on the
::Pat McCalla
run. Yep. And in the 400, when you come off that last, that last corner, that second corner, you got that
::Pat McCalla
definitely you everything's lactic right.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yep. Everything's lactic. So when we're training and I know this is going, but when we're training and we try to teach them how to through run it through the lactic controlling your breathing and things like that. So relaxed when you feel that.
::Pat McCalla
Which is one of the things that's fascinating about watching high level track athletes, because you will see them a lot of times they're in pain and you'll still see. And that's the training
::Shannon Hatchett
relaxed pace. Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
and yeah, if you watch someone who's not
::Shannon Hatchett
trained, athletes.
::Shannon Hatchett
Can be pretty.
::Shannon Hatchett
You're not relaxed. Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
Yeah. You could see the pain written all over them.
::Pat McCalla
So one of the things we wanted to do, Shannon, is unpack a little bit. And Brant, you help me out, here's a
::Brent Hatchett
you
::Brent Hatchett
Yeah. Every
::Pat McCalla
Division one athlete. I've talked to her interview, they're always like kind of downplay it. They're like, well, there's a lot of division. Not when you take the percentage of the totality of all the athletes in America, just our country. And how many of them actually make it to Division one level?
::Pat McCalla
It's a pretty small percentage. So
::Pat McCalla
I'm going to say you were a high
::Shannon Hatchett
level one.
::Shannon Hatchett
Okay.
::Shannon Hatchett
And and then
::Shannon Hatchett
mind.
::Pat McCalla
what are some of the things that you see as athletes that really hold them back, their mindset that that you that you as a coach are often having to deal
::Shannon Hatchett
with?
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah, mindset. the biggest mindset, honestly, is, having belief or confidence in their self, in their abilities.
::Shannon Hatchett
time and time again, like if you're at that level, you're clearly talented, but sometimes they work hard. They put it all in, you know, put all the effort in. But then when they get to the big state, it's like they're doubting the doubt.
::Shannon Hatchett
They're doubting their self, not trust in, the work they've put in, at least for track and field. That's what I see a lot, because you're on the line by yourself, and that's definitely something that's a little different from. Whereas like a bad sport, like basketball or football, you have your team with you track. Yes, we're a team sport, but it's you on the line by yourself.
::Shannon Hatchett
You have to do it like there's nobody to come. Hey, bail you out. Throw the ball, pass the ball. Nope.
::Shannon Hatchett
No one's carrying the.
::Shannon Hatchett
You know, no one's helping you out. Yep.
::Pat McCalla
So does that does that mindset, that doubting is that comes from self-talk. Is that a lot
::Shannon Hatchett
of self? Yeah, a lot of self-talk. and I know,
::Shannon Hatchett
mental health is like, I guess I would say is a lot bigger now than when I was in school. So just that with that being at the forefront, you just see a lot of athletes that they just, it will wear them down, to the point to where they'll run certain times in practice.
::Shannon Hatchett
And then when I get to the meet, you wouldn't even think, they ran those times.
::Pat McCalla
So they're that they do well in practice. But when they get in front that when it, when it matters
::Pat McCalla
run those same times. Do you think do you think that this idea of mental health like it is common language now we talk about it. Do you think that's
::Pat McCalla
been good or bad? Is that that help?
::Pat McCalla
I'm
::Shannon Hatchett
specifically talking about the athletic field.
::Shannon Hatchett
I think it's oh, I think it's good because I think it is healthy to have someone, like, actually be able to express that dialog and not just be like, oh, well, get over it. So I do think is healthy, but I also think that, is healthy in a, I guess I want to say, contained environment. I don't know if that makes sense, but like in an environment where it's not being used as a crutch, sometimes, but where it's something like, okay, clearly you do have this mental block.
::Shannon Hatchett
Let's figure out how we can get over this mental block, and not just use it as a crutch to get out of doing what you're supposed to be doing.
::Pat McCalla
We had someone on the podcast, about a year ago or something, and she's a counselor, and she works with us. She's doing a lot of, like, study of the brain. And she said something I thought was so fascinating. She said the brain has been, until fairly recently, the least studied part of the human
::Shannon Hatchett
body.
::Shannon Hatchett
And
::Shannon Hatchett
It.
::Shannon Hatchett
You got to figure out how
::Shannon Hatchett
Oh, 100%.
::Brent Hatchett
100% pass. Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
come for a message about your problem.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah. And I'm also dealing with my own.
::Shannon Hatchett
That's.
::Shannon Hatchett
It's not just people. So
::Brent Hatchett
so she's 100% spot on. And it's through those like tough spots that I've kind of learned to recognize. and I'll bring the spiritual perspective in there, that oftentimes that negative mindset is not my voice. It's actually the enemy's voice.
::Brent Hatchett
It's a it's a voice of an adversary. It's a voice of the one that wants you to stop you from becoming who it is that God's called and destined and desired to steal, kill, and destroy for you to be.
::Brent Hatchett
I think some of those ways as a part of mental health, I think a part of mental health is also just making sure you've got good spiritual health.
::Brent Hatchett
So and I know at some point we'll talk about overcoming those mental obstacles. But one of the things that I see her do, and we practice it in our household is separately just having some quiet time, quiet time with the Lord, reading scripture, listening to worship. She likes to journal, and she can talk more about that. I'm a bit of a crybaby, so I'll my quiet time.
::Brent Hatchett
There's a bunch of tears that,
::Brent Hatchett
There's too many. Yeah.
::Brent Hatchett
There's there's a bunch of tears that that flow in my quiet. but there's also just looking out for the little reminders of his truth, and not the truth I've made to be true. Yeah, right in his truth is this. I'm more than an overcomer in Christ Jesus. That his truth is he's for me. He's not against me.
::Brent Hatchett
His truth is, even though I feel like I'm standing on the line by myself, greater is the one that's in me than the one that's in the world. I have the Holy Spirit living on the inside of me, and we can go on and on and on. But, man, these are all things that I see her not only implement in her personal life, but I see her try to implement it in the lives of the athletes that the Lord has.
::Brent Hatchett
Trust her to do it. Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
Do you mind if I go back and ask a little bit about your spiritual
::Shannon Hatchett
journey? You
::Pat McCalla
grow up in a Christian home?
::Shannon Hatchett
I did, yeah.
::Pat McCalla
Okay.
::Pat McCalla
was that connected with the loss of the athletic mind and the the spiritual mind. Were those connected for you? Were you connect you know, when you're trying to overcome your own negative
::Shannon Hatchett
self-talk
::Shannon Hatchett
time?
::Shannon Hatchett
No, they were very intertwined.
::Shannon Hatchett
as I've gotten older now, it's funny that you ask that, I realized as my relationships developed with Christ, it was a lot of then, like, God, do this for me, do this for me. And then if you didn't do it, like, help me win this race, it's like, dang God, like
::Shannon Hatchett
failed me.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yes. And now, as I've grown like in my maturity as a Christian, it's like, okay, well, that wasn't in God's will and I'm right where I need to be. That doesn't mean that I'm not good enough, doesn't mean he doesn't love me. So, that's kind of how I guess it played a part in, in my journey. with Christ.
::Pat McCalla
That's huge though, Shannon, because I think that most people that are listening, that are people of faith, we have some that aren't necessarily that listen. But but anybody who's a person of faith, who's listening, I bet all of them would go back and go as they're doing their maturity, their their their journey of maturity,
::Shannon Hatchett
sky.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yes.
::Shannon Hatchett
And
::Shannon Hatchett
You know, I just
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah. Because people
::Shannon Hatchett
brought
::Shannon Hatchett
Yep. Right. You even saw that as an athlete?
::Shannon Hatchett
Yes.
::Pat McCalla
What are some ways that you guys deal as a coach now that you help them overcome that negative self-talk?
::Shannon Hatchett
So lots of one, lots of just communication, and pouring into them the positive thoughts. that's just self-talk like, hey, you've got this, but more importantly, showing them. So when we're writing our workouts is also want to train their bodies, but also to show them that you are capable of hitting the times that you may think that are far, far reached are that you can't hear so well.
::Shannon Hatchett
in practice, I know, like a lot of people think me just go out there, run because I'm a track coach, but it's a lot more put into it. So breaking up the race to like where you should be at a certain point, just really breaking it down for them so they have no room for you have no room for self-doubt.
::Shannon Hatchett
I think that's the biggest thing. Clearly we have, like you said, having the right people around, and we have, actual mental health coaches for them who also help them off the track to, you know, clear their mind. and to be able to whether it be journal are positive affirmations, whatever it may be, so that they can get get through the race, get through the races and get through practice.
::Pat McCalla
this is why I wanted to have you on here, because
::Pat McCalla
knew this was going to go in this direction, because it's so fascinating that this in the coaching world now, I there's probably hardly a professional team out there that you wouldn't have someone who's not just coaching them on how they make the right block or how
::Shannon Hatchett
they get
::Shannon Hatchett
up here.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yep.
::Shannon Hatchett
And and
::Pat McCalla
and there's a reason for that.
::Pat McCalla
Right. Because our self-talk, it's just like you said, they can run a certain time in practice, but also they can't do it in the game. And I think, again, for our listeners, we have the same thing.
::Pat McCalla
There's probably more self-talk going on with every single one of us than than we really
::Shannon Hatchett
yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
We really
::Shannon Hatchett
the
::Brent Hatchett
I would never say those
::Brent Hatchett
myself and I didn't then I don't even realize I'm saying it to myself sometimes.
::Brent Hatchett
Right?
::Shannon Hatchett
Yes.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yes.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yep. That's something I do. And I've noticed like some of our athletes, they'll do that as well. Like before the race when one of the girls and I know a few of them do it. But like, you know, she's writing down and she's actually she's writing down her scriptures or she's writing it down because she gets so nervous.
::Shannon Hatchett
So that helps her to calm her nerves. That's what she's figured out for her. So you find everybody has something different that helps them calm their nerves, are prepare their mind, whether there's music or a certain routine they have to do. I think that's why you see those things with different, even in different sports, because that's what helps them to clear their mind so they can perform at the level that they're being asked to perform it.
::Pat McCalla
The imposter syndrome,
::Brent Hatchett
is what we talked about.
::Shannon Hatchett
I think I
::Shannon Hatchett
here.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah
::Shannon Hatchett
Okay
::Pat McCalla
I know you two struggle with imposter syndrome, and I. Do.
::Shannon Hatchett
this back on me
::Brent Hatchett
Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
with?
::Shannon Hatchett
You're not. Oh, you
::Shannon Hatchett
some time
::Pat McCalla
with God that you have to try to
::Pat McCalla
put
::Shannon Hatchett
I mean, this is a great question right now. Like I told you, we just came back from conference. So in our conference meet was not we didn't perform where we needed to. So as mean for me as a coach, clearly we evaluate the athletes. But you also have to evaluate yourself. So for me it's like, okay, am I supposed to be am I supposed to give the profession like, hey, I got to step up my recruiting game.
::Shannon Hatchett
Maybe I'm not good. And like, you know, so those kind of self-doubts come in for me as a coach because a part of our job is more in recruiting. So we have to recruit the right athletes. We have to be able to make those connections to get them to come, to the school. But also we have to coach them when they get here.
::Shannon Hatchett
So,
::Shannon Hatchett
that's definitely right now. Self doubt as far as just life and what I'm dealing with right now.
::Pat McCalla
What about you,
::Brent Hatchett
Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
for sure.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
I mean no not at all. Yeah. No, no
::Brent Hatchett
I would say the one that I probably have dealt with and I'm using the word dealt as in past tense. Okay.
::Brent Hatchett
But it's this idea of being an insufficient leader. And one of the reasons why I think I got caught up on being an insufficient leader is because I found myself just being too anxious.
::Brent Hatchett
Right. I have an accomplishment. I've had done enough, haven't let enough. And one of the pictures, right?
::Pat McCalla
self-talk.
::Brent Hatchett
It's the.
::Brent Hatchett
Self.
::Shannon Hatchett
haven't had to correct.
::Brent Hatchett
And whether it's an
::Brent Hatchett
correct. All of our listeners
::Brent Hatchett
have.
::Brent Hatchett
Correct. So essentially I'll give you two, two analogies. One, there's this moment where, Jacob wrestles with God and he says, man, I'm not going to let you go until you bless me. Indeed. So a part of me overcoming my inability and feeling like an insufficient leader. I've had to wrestle with the Lord to have him literally say, hey, I can't.
::Brent Hatchett
I can't keep living like this. I can't keep going down this road like, you got to help me overcome this, and I'm not going to let you go till you bless me. Indeed. so that's one thing. And I remember there was a window where I was, I don't know, in a 48 hour period where I was running on maybe four hours of sleep, like literally just wrestling with the Lord.
::Brent Hatchett
But then secondly, here's a picture that the Lord just kind of gave me as far as what it look like for me to to walk in this, imposter syndrome. So my pace in my mind was doing this.
::Brent Hatchett
And then one day it was very simple. He was like, you just need to settle and settle. Looks like this.
::Brent Hatchett
Right. And then as this is going on, here's instead of me listening to the thoughts of the enemy, I have to remind myself that, number one, God is sovereign. So where I am right now, in this moment, he knew I would be there from the very beginning of time. So I'm not insufficient. This isn't catching him by surprise.
::Brent Hatchett
It's just catching me by surprise. Number two, I don't have to stay here. I can continue to grow, but I don't have to make anything happen. I just have to trust his plan. Walk in obedience, keep clean hands and a pure heart. Now I'm listening to a different voice, which is really scripture. And all this is helping me do is just, oh, I can be settled.
::Brent Hatchett
Yeah, yeah.
::Brent Hatchett
I can be settled.
::Pat McCalla
Wow.
::Pat McCalla
By the way, you kept a pretty good beat
::Shannon Hatchett
I know.
::Shannon Hatchett
That's.
::Shannon Hatchett
Just.
::Brent Hatchett
Hey.
::Pat McCalla
So
::Pat McCalla
what what did you found that, you know, because you use this and you go on, and this again, I think a lot of our listeners are going. That's how I'm living life right now.
::Shannon Hatchett
That's what it feels like.
::Brent Hatchett
Right.
::Brent Hatchett
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
What were some of the practical things I think you mentioned, some of them that you, you two have figured out to do to, to get life to do that more
::Pat McCalla
to, to slow down
::Brent Hatchett
Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
I know one thing he said is the quiet time. two just I mean, it's a simple thing. I know people like not everybody likes vision or goal, but like, having that goal, but also just knowing that giving your self, I guess, grace to like, mess up and know that. Okay, if I didn't do it this time, God still got me.
::Shannon Hatchett
And like, that's what I'm telling myself. Not necessarily. All the athletes are telling myself that myself, but, you know, just giving yourself grace. Okay? I messed up this time. That doesn't mean that I'm a failure and I'm never going to run that again. So that's
::Shannon Hatchett
the part of the positive affirmations or whatnot. I don't know what else.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah. So on
::Brent Hatchett
a practical level, just good, good people around you, good mentors who can call you out on your crap, who can tell you the truth when the enemy is trying to speak lies. So that's one thing.
::Brent Hatchett
And you're
::Pat McCalla
still in your life
::Shannon Hatchett
Yes.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah, yeah.
::Brent Hatchett
But then the second thing that I'm learning is,
::Brent Hatchett
as a believer, but I. There's no way I can mess this up. Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
If I
::Pat McCalla
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
me from talking too much. But
::Brent Hatchett
but, like, Peter's my favorite character in scripture, right? Because he's. And here's the reason why he's one of the most gifted individuals. And out of all of the disciples, number two, he is in the top three. As far as being closest to Jesus. But then number three,
::Shannon Hatchett
bigger than that,
::Brent Hatchett
he just is a goofball, like he's a hot mess.com.
::Shannon Hatchett
how messed up
::Shannon Hatchett
the worst times.
::Shannon Hatchett
And
::Shannon Hatchett
to you, father. Heaven.
::Shannon Hatchett
oh, you can't die
::Pat McCalla
Yep. Yeah, I can still it's. Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
three times.
::Brent Hatchett
After saying I would
::Shannon Hatchett
die for you. But
::Brent Hatchett
then we fast forward to acts chapter two. And
::Brent Hatchett
this is the man who stewards the greatest move on the earth that has ever happened the day of Pentecost.
::Brent Hatchett
So all those failures.
::Shannon Hatchett
You
::Brent Hatchett
can't mess this up.
::Brent Hatchett
They weren't.
::Brent Hatchett
Yeah, you cannot mess this up.
::Pat McCalla
And I
::Brent Hatchett
think we're done.
::Pat McCalla
like is it whether you're an athlete
::Pat McCalla
this is where the faith part goes in there. You coach a lot of people that don't come from a
::Shannon Hatchett
place of right good
::Pat McCalla
with people.
::Pat McCalla
when we have that, like when I recognize that my standing before God has nothing to do with what my time is on that track.
::Shannon Hatchett
Right.
::Shannon Hatchett
And
::Brent Hatchett
that's
::Shannon Hatchett
Right?
::Pat McCalla
That's that's huge, isn't
::Shannon Hatchett
it.
::Pat McCalla
So what else do you guys. Because quiet time. I find that interesting. You guys were actually made this part of your family.
::Pat McCalla
Like, is this a practice you do as a family or you got to.
::Shannon Hatchett
help your kids or not.
::Shannon Hatchett
And
::Pat McCalla
Okay, there's no such thing as quiet time with nine and three
::Shannon Hatchett
hours before they get up.
::Shannon Hatchett
Okay. So you try to.
::Shannon Hatchett
Go for that. Yes. Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
But that's a great point though because again, some people are listening and they go, well I can't do that
::Brent Hatchett
Yes you can, but
::Shannon Hatchett
You guys are in a
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah. Yes.
::Shannon Hatchett
She's better at me than I am.
::Pat McCalla
Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
it's only the last eight months
::Pat McCalla
Yeah,
::Pat McCalla
Yeah, yeah.
::Pat McCalla
so you're getting up at five.
::Pat McCalla
For.
::Pat McCalla
Congrats. And then you moved two years to six.
::Shannon Hatchett
But I still get up at five so I can have my ready to go. Yeah. Yes.
::Brent Hatchett
Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
I think I've just developed it. and I think being an athlete has really been a big part of that amount.
::Shannon Hatchett
Why put the other one up,
::Brent Hatchett
FAM. Do y'all see
::Shannon Hatchett
these vain.
::Shannon Hatchett
Oh my gosh. That's just because I've always had that.
::Shannon Hatchett
Even fam that's up 10% body fat.
::Brent Hatchett
Those are earned. so
::Pat McCalla
when you look back, you said you think you learned it through athletics. You weren't just naturally a disciplined person when you were a little girl
::Pat McCalla
or were you somewhat. And then at the athletics time just really
::Shannon Hatchett
I think within athletics, I honed in on that, having a goal, I guess, that I wanted to achieve. And okay, I'm very I think even within our family, I'm very much like, okay, we want to do this. How can we do it? Like it's not just going to happen out of thin air. So we're going to, yes, plan steps.
::Shannon Hatchett
How are we going to get there clearly now I mean even then I knew God. You know, he always has a plan. I know that if you have a plan, it can, you know, derail sometimes because it's not always what you think. But I always I fully believe you should at least have some sort of plan. Our where you're going to achieve whatever goal it may.
::Shannon Hatchett
May have to change.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yes.
::Shannon Hatchett
Guaranteed. Not to get there. You have no plan.
::Shannon Hatchett
Exactly.
::Pat McCalla
yeah, that's what you're saying. But that, you know man, this is why it's so good having you on here. Because again, we talk about the power and complexity of human choice as people of faith.
::Brent Hatchett
Yeah. I think it's
::Shannon Hatchett
choices.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
That
::Pat McCalla
with it, but our habits,
::Pat McCalla
mean this we could do a whole podcast on just
::Shannon Hatchett
it. Yeah. It sounds
::Shannon Hatchett
Whatever, whatever it is.
::Shannon Hatchett
Without habits. And
::Pat McCalla
usually little habits, you know, get up at five or get up at six or and then the accumulative,
::Pat McCalla
you get up at six, you're not going get rid of the dad bod getting up at six one day. Right.
::Brent Hatchett
No, you got to do.
::Brent Hatchett
It every day.
::Brent Hatchett
Compounding.
::Brent Hatchett
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
So that's that's part of the choice thing. And you see that was that's why I think that the athletic mind is so important. No one who's an athlete who's going to do go to a high level
::Pat McCalla
is going to get there without good habits.
::Shannon Hatchett
Correct. Yeah. Yeah,
::Pat McCalla
anything else you want to say on, on on self-talk, negative self-talk?
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah. I mean, it is, it is, is big.
::Shannon Hatchett
it could take a whole season or two seasons for somebody to have a breakthrough. And I think that's the same kind of like what Brant was saying. It could be the same applying to just your everyday life. Like your self-talk can hold you back for years.
::Shannon Hatchett
so until you can speak that positivity or find a way to have somebody speaking to you or whether it's through the word or whatever it may be like, it just it can affect your life.
::Shannon Hatchett
daily.
::Shannon Hatchett
breakthrough.
::Brent Hatchett
and subconsciously
::Shannon Hatchett
No. So
::Shannon Hatchett
scripture brought
::Brent Hatchett
through fear. Yep.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah. Which
::Brent Hatchett
So what you're talking.
::Brent Hatchett
Yep.
::Shannon Hatchett
Okay.
::Shannon Hatchett
someone who's talented.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yep. Okay.
::Pat McCalla
Wow.
::Pat McCalla
So so let me let me transition a little bit then.
::Pat McCalla
You're a mom.
::Pat McCalla
We already talked about
::Shannon Hatchett
right?
::Shannon Hatchett
You
::Shannon Hatchett
Yep.
::Shannon Hatchett
Three year old.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yes.
::Pat McCalla
we're sitting in the studio and we just celebrated mother's Day last weekend. I don't know when this will drop. He'll probably drop in a couple of months, but we just came out of Mother's Day. That's a that's thing that I think any mother today is half honor to to wrestle with trying to balance this.
::Pat McCalla
You're a
::Shannon Hatchett
coach and.
::Shannon Hatchett
Working.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah. How do you how do you deal with that. How
::Shannon Hatchett
Again, it does. It comes down to a lot of choices. And that's even with that question you asked before. That's another thing that sometimes, you know, that self-doubt can creep in because it's like, okay, am I doing enough as a mother? I have to do this with my job. So, like you say, so just a lot of choices.
::Shannon Hatchett
I have to decide when I'm going to put my family first and not necessarily want to put my job first. But when I'm going to, how I'm going to prioritize, prioritize, those different things. So for me, it does. It takes a lot of self-discipline. it takes a lot of planning. on my part in structure. that's the only way I'm able to be able to function.
::Shannon Hatchett
But also, like I said before, it takes me giving myself some grace just knowing that, okay, I'm not going to always get things right. because I can be hard on myself. sometimes when it comes to. But I'm not good. I'm like, I'm going to be a perfect mother. I don't think anybody's perfect.
::Shannon Hatchett
I guess just with juggling being a mother, working and being a coach, I just try to find some time for myself every now and again, but know that especially at this stage, I think right now the biggest thing we are struggling with is finding a little bit of structure with me traveling a lot right now
::Shannon Hatchett
and then being a minister or a pastor, but at a new in a new church still kind of not even a year yet, learning his way around that. So just finding that structure to make sure we have time and that we're stewarding our arch elbows very well, in this season and for what they're called to do.
::Shannon Hatchett
So I guess that's some of the things that are on our hearts right now as far as when it goes.
::Shannon Hatchett
So just
::Brent Hatchett
at has helped tremendously in: ::Shannon Hatchett
I would, you.
::Shannon Hatchett
Know, we meet
::Brent Hatchett
every month. Usually it's the end of the month, the last Sunday of the month, and it's, I don't know, maybe 30 minutes, 30, 35 minutes.
::Brent Hatchett
it's not that long, but it's.
::Brent Hatchett
You
::Pat McCalla
can't have a long meeting with a three year
::Brent Hatchett
Old.
::Shannon Hatchett
I know. Yeah, she's.
::Shannon Hatchett
Hasn't really participated.
::Shannon Hatchett
But it's
::Pat McCalla
then you.
::Pat McCalla
Oh, man, I love that. So your kids are doing that
::Shannon Hatchett
too.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
has very good constructive criticism.
::Shannon Hatchett
He does.
::Brent Hatchett
Yeah, yeah, yeah. but it's
::Shannon Hatchett
now.
::Shannon Hatchett
He's he's great at complimenting. He's. Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
Making it
::Shannon Hatchett
here's your great.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah. Correct. So he'll be like
::Brent Hatchett
that. That is the one thing I want to say. You're just you're really, really great, dad. They're really great, dad. And I'll wait to give you that constructive
::Shannon Hatchett
for later. Right. So tell me that. And it was
::Brent Hatchett
criticism?
::Brent Hatchett
All right. So you're really, really great, dad, and this is a real one. He said, but here's what I want you to do. I know that you're always with me, but would you be a little bit more present,
::Brent Hatchett
like when you like when my nine year old, he was like, when I play the game, would you play the game with me and not just watch me play the game?
::Shannon Hatchett
Whoa, whoa.
::Brent Hatchett
you know about that, though, man. I love our audience. Takes
::Brent Hatchett
Congratulations on the
::Shannon Hatchett
grandkids now.
::Brent Hatchett
I'm present
::Brent Hatchett
not.
::Brent Hatchett
He's in one. And he said it like that.
::Brent Hatchett
I want you to be more present.
::Brent Hatchett
Yes. Oh, oh, it's wild
::Shannon Hatchett
as well. But a lot of it just
::Pat McCalla
there like.
::Pat McCalla
Yeah, okay. Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
Yeah I think yeah.
::Pat McCalla
Part
::Pat McCalla
Yeah that
::Shannon Hatchett
Good.
::Brent Hatchett
follow this routine.
::Brent Hatchett
So yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
He's been doing better.
::Brent Hatchett
These we know better?
::Pat McCalla
that's a great idea. You know I hope I hope maybe some of our audiences have kids at home. Might be something they want to implement, like have a family meeting and then, you know, open it up to have everybody share something that, that, an encouragement to everybody, but constructive criticism as well.
::Pat McCalla
And then, man, how why do you can start that.
::Pat McCalla
Like where'd that come from.
::Brent Hatchett
Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
So
::Shannon Hatchett
I don't know it wasn't this end was this. It was this year. But we want to I know last year I think it wasn't intentional. Last year I was. So we started off with having words of the year. Our like what we felt I guess God or the Holy Spirit was telling us the last year. It was intentional faith.
::Shannon Hatchett
It was intentional. So within that, I and I think we both felt by felt like we need to be more intentional about, I guess, just being a family and one just what God meant to our family. So within that, we started the family meetings. one also to make sure we had a scripture of the month which that's still.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah, we still working on that. But like, I guess just to really make sure we're living out the word and not just, you know, going about our day because for me and I, this kind of goes off. But I did I grew up in a church, but I didn't necessarily have a relationship with Christ until it was later on.
::Shannon Hatchett
That's because it was just a routine. Okay, let's go to church. Okay. You better listen. You better do follow the Ten Commandments. Do this and
::Shannon Hatchett
I know I didn't want that for our kids. So for me it's like, okay, yes, we're going to church, but you have to have a relationship. Like you need to know why you're doing these things and not in a forceful way, like, hey, you better not soon, like so letting them just kind of figure it out.
::Shannon Hatchett
So I feel like with us having those meetings and being able to just to talk about, hey, I messed up, like sometimes I would to be like, hey, talk about how you feel. I'm messed up in this area and I'm sorry, but this is how I know I need to change you. This is how God, addressed it to me and let him in it, too.
::Shannon Hatchett
But letting him actually see that that we're human. And it's not like this. Just picture perfect, like, follow God, and you're never going to mess up and give yourself.
::Shannon Hatchett
And
::Brent Hatchett
And to just add to it is really two parts. There's one part where it's family care, but then there's another part where it's discipleship.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah. So
::Brent Hatchett
especially for our kids, right. It's training. So, we say it all the time, we don't just want to raise our kids. We want to disciple our kids.
::Pat McCalla
know, if I had to put a theme on what we've talked about, like, kind of wrapping it up now, I think what's come, come around from even talking about you. How do you balance your life as a mother and what things you brought up that I want to point out is, is you were saying, you know, the family's most important.
::Pat McCalla
But then there's times where you go and that doesn't mean because that's, that's sometimes that's just thrown around like, okay, put your family first.
::Shannon Hatchett
Okay? What about when you can't.
::Shannon Hatchett
Hear.
::Shannon Hatchett
Like, you have a job, you can't, like
::Shannon Hatchett
track.
::Shannon Hatchett
Right.
::Shannon Hatchett
then. But yeah,
::Shannon Hatchett
So you brought up again
::Shannon Hatchett
having grace.
::Shannon Hatchett
And I think also for me is like, I feel like you may not be able to be somewhere, but you can make sure is covered in that area. So making sure either brick has it or we have somebody helping us out, like, I'm not going to be in town, but okay, maybe call my mother, our mother in law.
::Shannon Hatchett
So just thinking through like, okay, I know I have this coming up. What can I do? And that's the planning part of me. And that's also the part that I struggle with, too, knowing that, I'm not gonna always be able to plan and make sure everything. So, like I say, giving myself some grace, like it was going to be okay.
::Pat McCalla
Because and again, I think this would kind of this is the theme of what we've been talking about today is, is the truth that we're not going to arrive as an athlete. They're never going to arrive
::Shannon Hatchett
As
::Shannon Hatchett
But having
::Pat McCalla
the grace then to go like it's okay. So once somebody told me this once years ago and it really helped me
::Pat McCalla
because I kept thinking like I was going to, I was going to wake up one day and I was going to arrive and he said, I don't know if you had these when you were younger because I'm like two decades ahead of you guys, a decade and a half ahead of you guys.
::Pat McCalla
Remember those? The we called them teeter totter.
::Brent Hatchett
Oh yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
and what do they call it?
::Brent Hatchett
Seesaw.
::Brent Hatchett
Yeah. Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
right.
::Shannon Hatchett
And you'd walk over and.
::Shannon Hatchett
You go down that way, you walk back.
::Pat McCalla
that's a little more how life is.
::Pat McCalla
And the journey with Jesus is, and the journey with us as a mother or a father or a or a person or a spouse is oh, oh, oh, I'm over here to fight, I need to, then you move back over and having the grace to do that.
::Pat McCalla
And that's kind of the theme I've heard, whether you're talking about coaching athletes as a mom is having that, that you're not going to arrive
::Shannon Hatchett
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
and it's okay.
::Pat McCalla
yeah.
::Pat McCalla
Anything you want to add to that,
::Brent Hatchett
man?
::Brent Hatchett
Let me just win some brownie points. Let me just say that you're amazing.
::Shannon Hatchett
Oh, gosh.
::Shannon Hatchett
I
::Brent Hatchett
love you so much. Thank you for letting me have the opportunity to be on your pod today. I have can I get your.
::Shannon Hatchett
Oh my gosh, stop it. He's too much.
::Shannon Hatchett
I get to
::Brent Hatchett
address. I got a pen here and everything.
::Pat McCalla
do appreciate you being on here. Shannon. Thank you for first. And then my co-host,
::Brent Hatchett
kind of said.
::Shannon Hatchett
Thank you for.
::Shannon Hatchett
Having you
::Brent Hatchett
can help.
::Brent Hatchett
Yeah,
::Brent Hatchett
about it
::Pat McCalla
those are all important things.
::Pat McCalla
All right. My favorite part of the podcast,
::Shannon Hatchett
Okay. I'm ready.
::Shannon Hatchett
You got to you got to go.
::Shannon Hatchett
competitive all. Let me see if I can get three
::Shannon Hatchett
Okay. All right. Ready? I'm ready. All right. I have a sweet tooth. I double majored in marketing and sports management. I am one of four children.
::Pat McCalla
I you got a sweet tooth.
::Shannon Hatchett
That's. I think I'm going to say that because
::Shannon Hatchett
really, really disappointed. They're the ones who say, like, I have a sweet tooth. Like I said, negative. Yeah, but it's not. It's just a reality
::Shannon Hatchett
that was.
::Shannon Hatchett
Mine is really bad. But yes.
::Shannon Hatchett
Really bad. Yeah, really bad breath
::Brent Hatchett
It is. Yeah. It is.
::Shannon Hatchett
Oh yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
If I had to choose like one.
::Shannon Hatchett
You're going to go get what.
::Shannon Hatchett
Some cookies and cookies. Yeah. Some. Yeah. Soft cookies. yeah. Oh my gosh.
::Shannon Hatchett
We crumble crumbled.
::Shannon Hatchett
Crunchy on the outside. Yeah. Chewy
::Pat McCalla
on the inside. Okay. so now we have your one of four.
::Shannon Hatchett
Or you double major.
::Pat McCalla
I'm going to say you double major. That's
::Shannon Hatchett
I did double major but not in sports marketing. Oh it's management. Yeah.
::Shannon Hatchett
Okay.
::Shannon Hatchett
You pulled on it though. Yes.
::Shannon Hatchett
So what did you double major.
::Shannon Hatchett
marketing and finance
::Pat McCalla
Okay. Wow. High.
::Shannon Hatchett
You ended up the coach.
::Shannon Hatchett
Yep.
::Pat McCalla
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
Well, Shannon, thank you again for being on here. Brant. Good that you're. This is the
::Brent Hatchett
second, second time. Let's go in the hot seat now. Yes, yes. Love it. Love having you guys.
::Shannon Hatchett
Thank you. Yeah.
::Host
incredible episode that was with the hatchets. So glad we could have them on. If you liked this episode, be sure to leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts. And if you're tuning in on YouTube, leave a comment below on one of your biggest takeaways. We'll see you next time on no gray areas.
