How Todd Tamed a Wild Horse — And What It Reveals About Our Hearts | Ep. 129 with Todd Pierce
Join us as we sit down with former rodeo athlete and founder of Riding High Ministries, Todd Pierce. Known for his powerful live horse training demonstrations, Todd shares how the process of connecting with a wild horse mirrors the way Jesus pursues, heals, and transforms us. But behind his message is Todd’s own story of fatherlessness, anger, and a desperate need to feel safe in a broken world.
Todd shares how God met him in the most unexpected way—through a horse—and how that encounter revealed the depth of the Father’s love. From learning the difference between authority and influence, to the ongoing need for fatherhood and spiritual surrender, this conversation is full of honesty and redemption.
This episode is for anyone who’s ever felt unseen or unworthy of love. Todd offers a powerful reminder that God isn’t after your performance; he’s ultimately after your heart. And the moment you stop running, He’ll be right there to meet you.
To connect with Todd:
Visit: https://www.ridinghighministries.org/
Todd’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pierce_todd/?hl=en
WEBSITE: https://www.nogreyareaspodcast.com/
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/nogreyareas_gagliano/
FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/NoGreyAreas
TIK TOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@nogreyareasgagliano
EMAIL: info@nogreyareas.com
YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbnC2rjEumGJhqy54qazFFw
No Grey Areas is a motivational podcast with captivating guests centered around how our choices humanize, empower, and define who we become. This podcast is inspired by the cautionary tale, No Grey Areas, written by Joseph Gagliano. Learn more about the truth behind his story involved with sports' biggest scandal at https://www.nogreyareas.com/
Transcript
Host
Today I sit down for a remote interview with Todd Pearce. He's the founder of Riding High Ministries, and a man whose gift with horses has turned into a powerful ministry by sharing the heart of the father through live demonstrations with wild horses. Todd shows how Jesus pursues us using the process of taming a horse to reflect our own relationship with God.
::Host
In this episode, he opens up on how he gets a horse to trust him, the deep need for fatherhood in today's world. What real authority should look like? Here we go.
::Pat McCalla
Well, Todd Pierce, thank you so much for being on the No Gray Areas podcast.
::Pat McCalla
I actually got connected to you. I heard you on another podcast about a year ago, and then we started pursuing you because I'm like, we have got to get you on the No Gray Areas podcast. And just for the audience, one of the things that you do that is so cool that you do these events are called born Wild events.
::Pat McCalla
And so you go into an arena, you're miked up, and they bring in a horse that you've never met before. It's an untamed horse. Sometimes those horses maybe want to kill you because they're
::Pat McCalla
know,
::Pat McCalla
but then you actually walk through with the audience. This this process of you taming the horse and sometimes, like, getting on the back and riding it, around in the arena.
::Pat McCalla
But then you connect what's happening between you and the horse, between what happens to us and God. Did I explain that pretty well?
::Todd Pierce
That's really. Yeah. Really. Well. Thank you.
::Todd Pierce
You got it.
::Pat McCalla
it is such a cool thing. In fact, on the way to this podcast, I found one of those recordings of you doing that with a palomino horse. I don't know what church you were at when you did that,
::Pat McCalla
and I I'm only halfway through and I can't wait till we're done with the podcasting a good.
::Pat McCalla
I get to go listen to the
::Pat McCalla
But,
::Pat McCalla
what's one of the craziest thing that's happened to you when you do those wild events? I'm sure you've had a couple
::Todd Pierce
Man.
::Todd Pierce
Yeah. Probably the most recent crazy thing was we were doing an event down by San Diego, and, you know, we we have to find a horse. Our team finds a horse in the local area, and they trailer the horse to the venue, and, this specific, church venue, the horse was going to have to travel through LA to get to where we were at, and apparently it got stuck in traffic in LA.
::Todd Pierce
And so if you don't believe in
::Todd Pierce
road rage, it's a real thing. And even animals get it. And so. Yeah. So I didn't know this, before, but, this horse showed up literally, what, just minutes before we're supposed to begin, which typically they're there for couple hours, just to be fair to the horse and let them acclimate a little bit.
::Todd Pierce
And this this, mare got off the horse or off the trailer right into the round pen. We had a couple thousand men there, and she went to fight and and tried to kill me, literally. It
::Todd Pierce
I ended up having to get stitched up and broke my hand and,
::Todd Pierce
Yeah, it was, it was gnarly, in fact, as she kicked once so close to my face that the sand from the bottom of her feet, went in my eyes and so I couldn't see.
::Todd Pierce
So now I'm blind and the horse is trying to kill me. And so my son actually jumped the fence and and got in there and kept her away and washed my eyes out with a bottle of water.
::Pat McCalla
Wow.
::Todd Pierce
And so this manor,
::Todd Pierce
some of them are kind of traumatized by what's happening, like, oh, my God, we're going to actually watch somebody die here.
::Todd Pierce
And, nobody knows how to stop it. You know, you can't ring a bell and the horse will stop. And so,
::Todd Pierce
that was a great way to get everyone's attention, including mine,
::Todd Pierce
and say, okay, we're in a really holy moment right now because this is going to go
::Todd Pierce
one way or the other. One of us is going to die.
::Todd Pierce
And, I sure hope it ain't her.
::Pat McCalla
Wow.
::Todd Pierce
and so,
::Todd Pierce
we were able to sort through that and, within 20 minutes, I was able to be on her back and riding her. So
::Pat McCalla
crazy.
::Todd Pierce
it's not magic and it's not horse training. It's. It is supernatural.
::Pat McCalla
Well. And, Todd, that's one of the crazy things about what you do. Again,
::Pat McCalla
in my past life, I spent 20, 30 years speaking on stages. And, I know you, like, you put together a whole message, and you kind of know, like, here's my intro. Here's the stories I'm going to tell.
::Todd Pierce
No.
::Pat McCalla
But when you walk into that, you it's going to be a little different every time, right?
::Pat McCalla
Like, you don't have a prepared message. You probably have some main themes you come back to, but it kind of depends on what that horse is dealing with. Is that correct?
::Todd Pierce
Yeah, that's exactly it. My biggest challenge, in preparing if I'm going to be preparing is to actually just get really, really quiet. And, as as much as you can be in a state of, just open for whatever it is Holy Spirit wants to say,
::Todd Pierce
that I don't get in my own way because there is no script.
::Todd Pierce
And if I'm going to be really on to honest and authentic with the horse, it requires me to not come in there with an agenda. And if I come in with some teaching points that I want to get across, I'm just going to manipulate the conversation.
::Todd Pierce
it's going to be everything about what it is that Jesus was.
::Todd Pierce
And Jesus was just super honest and,
::Todd Pierce
wasn't pretending. And it wasn't manipulating. It was just revealing the truth.
::Pat McCalla
Man. Brother, what an adventure you're living. Like what a cool thing. Let me go back to that story though that you're talking about with that mare that was trying to kill you. So just to kind of help our audience understand, how did that play out then? Like, what did you find was the trigger points with this horse? How were you the
::Pat McCalla
quote, horse whisperer with her?
::Todd Pierce
Well, typically
::Todd Pierce
when you and, going to start a horse in a round pen, the the purpose for it being round is that you don't want him to have a corner, because you don't ever want them to feel cornered. You can move freely. The the fence is going to keep you in close proximity.
::Todd Pierce
You know, it's a 40ft diameter pen, but you're free to go where you want.
::Todd Pierce
But the pen keeps us like it's.
::Todd Pierce
We can't. We can't escape ourselves. We can move and go wherever we want. But you can't outrun yourself or God. And so it just gives the horse lots of space to move. And so typically I will, either swing a rope or something to get the horse to move around in a circle, because while they're moving, they're more engaged in thinking because, they're, they're sorting out between distractions about what's going on around them and what's actually the relevant point in the moment, which is going to be me, because I'm the one that
::Todd Pierce
eventually they're going to have to be confronted with. And so in trying to have a, a healthy confrontation with this mare, I was asking her to move and she's like, no, you move. And so she would come at me and, so then that's when the kicking and.
::Todd Pierce
You know, trying to that's what a horse would do, is she was fight or flight. So
::Todd Pierce
she was pissed off enough from, I think from traffic that, you want to fight, let's fight. And so yeah. Yeah. So like,
::Todd Pierce
you know, the trigger really was that she was already upset. And it's not a she's raised and, Mountain Ranch hadn't been around people hardly at all.
::Todd Pierce
And now she's put in a position where, you know, you got to have a lot of compassion for why it is that she was being as violent as she was. She thought she actually had to protect herself. And so because she didn't feel safe,
::Todd Pierce
if I'm going to say horse whispering, if there was any whispering that was happening, it wasn't very quiet.
::Todd Pierce
But,
::Todd Pierce
and this is, I believe, maybe the grace on my life is that even in that setting, my pulse never went up. And I didn't get angry, and I wasn't reacting to her violence. In fact, as I was doing everything I could to avoid confrontation until she would look at me, and once she looked at me, I was able to actually just walk up to her
::Pat McCalla
was she avoiding looking at you like in this in this particular situation
::Todd Pierce
Yeah.
::Todd Pierce
it's normal for them to try to figure out what to look at, but because I was the one that was in close proximity to her, she just saw me as a threat. And she was upset enough about her and her entire environment. And this is why everybody listening to this can probably relate to this. You've been in places where
::Todd Pierce
it's like everything around you is.
::Todd Pierce
It just feels like the sky is falling and we get into a protective mode and, we lash out. And so for a horse to lash out, it's, it's just violent because there they're 1,000 pounds of bone and muscle and that's, that's what they have to do to stay alive. And so the instinctual side of a horse is,
::Todd Pierce
fight or flight type animal, but it's actually a prey animal.
::Todd Pierce
And because it's a prey animal, it's got some really gnarly, defensive weapons.
::Pat McCalla
Do you when you get in the ring, like for example, this mare that you had, are you identifying,
::Pat McCalla
tender spot, a weak spot. I don't know how you might put that into words. Is there something that
::Pat McCalla
can kind of tell that maybe would have happened to this horse?
::Pat McCalla
is that one of the things you're doing there?
::Todd Pierce
That becomes more evident to me as
::Todd Pierce
Her and I start working together, and I have interactions with her that right off. In that same scenario, the only thing I can control is me. And so I was doing my very best to stay in the moment, very present. I'm not leaving, you know, you're not going to bully me. I'm not going to go away. But I stayed really kind and calm,
::Todd Pierce
I didn't fight fire with fire.
::Todd Pierce
I just had to manage myself. And,
::Todd Pierce
that's actually what's captivating to them. Because in a herd, that's what becomes the, the dominant, leader in the herd isn't just the strongest one. It's the one that actually, will stay in the moment
::Todd Pierce
and lead themselves well enough that others will follow and
::Todd Pierce
it's just really a picture of what I believe, especially if we talk about masculinity, which is a subject I just love to talk about.
::Todd Pierce
But,
::Todd Pierce
it's not just being strong physically, you know, and, and the grit that most of us really enjoy about ourselves, it's, it's way bigger than that. It's that we're unmovable, emotionally as well as physically when it comes to doing the right thing.
::Pat McCalla
I want to circle back around that later on because
::Pat McCalla
that's such a hot topic for me as well.
::Pat McCalla
I think it's so confusing for men growing up in our culture. I think it's always been somewhat confusing, but our culture certainly not made it any easier. And it's confused, like, what is true manhood look like?
::Pat McCalla
What is biblical manhood look like? You know, it's just really confusing topic. So I'm going to circle back around to that in a little bit with you.
::Pat McCalla
when you do these events, these born wild events, you're kind of using it as an analogy of you're representing God and the horse is representing us.
::Pat McCalla
Correct.
::Todd Pierce
Yeah. It's tough. I actually do want to really represent
::Todd Pierce
who God is as a father, specifically. And so I'm either because Jesus was the perfect image of the invisible God, and then he's asked us to be that same image. Do people like we're supposed to represent represent the nature and the the attributes of God?
::Todd Pierce
As a male and, you know, women get to do that in a female sense.
::Todd Pierce
And so
::Todd Pierce
my position to the horse is a position of absolute authority that is way higher in the,
::Todd Pierce
I know more my brain is more, aware of, of the bigger picture
::Todd Pierce
and so it is a living parable of, of the gospel. But also, I think just for us in our humanity, it's a great teaching tool for me as I lead as a husband, as a father, and in any capacity, the leadership looks like something
::Todd Pierce
just because you have authority doesn't mean you actually have influence.
::Todd Pierce
And so being able to separate those two things out,
::Todd Pierce
you can't lie to a horse, so I can I can fool some people. But the great thing about bringing an animal that's as sensitive as a horse into the into the teaching is that one, they're a very accurate mirror of you.
::Todd Pierce
And I'm not going to fool them.
::Todd Pierce
I've tried and, I can't, you know, push my anger down
::Todd Pierce
and have a healthy interaction. It'll come out. And the horse, the horse is just really, really perceptive to those things.
::Pat McCalla
That's crazy how perceptive horses are. Right. Because I know they use them.
::Pat McCalla
Years ago I had actually helped start, safe House for Girls Rescue from human trafficking. And we started equine therapy. And it was unbelievable to see how these horses would connect with these girls who had suffered terrible abuse and would be part of their therapy.
::Pat McCalla
So,
::Todd Pierce
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
of of all of God's creation,
::Pat McCalla
a horse and a human. There's a there's a dogs are kind of similar, but there's a horse and human. There's some kind of connection there, isn't there? That's interesting. You said something fascinating that you said authority doesn't mean influence or doesn't equal influence.
::Pat McCalla
that's what you're doing in the arena, right where you are in authority.
::Pat McCalla
But it doesn't necessarily mean that you can influence this horse. Until what?
::Pat McCalla
What has to change for that horse to allow you to start influencing it?
::Host
Hey, we hope you've enjoyed this episode so far. Be sure to like and subscribe to not miss a future podcast! Okay, let's get back to the episode.
::Pat McCalla
What has to change for that horse to allow you to start influencing it?
::Todd Pierce
Just trust me. And,
::Todd Pierce
believe that I'm powerful and that I'm kind. And so if you have one without the other, it's it's not going to work. And I think that, you know, as I love to address God as papa, like, it's such a beautiful, personal, intimate, oneness that I get to enjoy with God. But I don't think that,
::Todd Pierce
just because of the language that I put around it, that I've lost my holy reverence for who it is that I'm actually being able to be one with,
::Todd Pierce
so the horse has to have some level of reverence towards the fact that, oh, this guy is powerful, and I don't think they
::Todd Pierce
process things the way that we do. It's either they are or they're not.
::Todd Pierce
wow, no gray areas. So.
::Todd Pierce
This.
::Todd Pierce
Yeah, I didn't catch that too. I just said that. But,
::Todd Pierce
Yeah.
::Todd Pierce
So for a horse, it is very black and white and, and so either I have it, I have authority or I don't. And just because God said that I have authority, they get to decide if I'm going to have influence. And so if influence is what I want, which is what I want in life with anybody that I love, is that I want to have whatever level of love that I can express to them.
::Todd Pierce
I want to be able to do that, but I can't do that unless they give me permission to. And I think that is the that is the beauty of God is that he doesn't put any of us in a corner and say, let me love you or make me love you. And and so this, this level of trust that needs to be established makes it to where now I've, I've been given authority, but because of the way that I conduct myself,
::Todd Pierce
it wins me, influence.
::Pat McCalla
Man I love so much how you just put that
::Pat McCalla
you know. And again relating it like God is powerful. But he's also good.
::Pat McCalla
said that the goodness of God is the skeletal system that all of our theology must hang on. Like if you don't believe that God is good then his holiness, his love, his we can go down to his justice.
::Pat McCalla
We can go down a lot of his other attributes.
::Pat McCalla
They're going to be tough to to to really connect with
::Todd Pierce
Yeah. The.
::Pat McCalla
So and I love that. But you don't want to. You can't separate him. It's
::Todd Pierce
Yeah.
::Todd Pierce
It's all of it.
::Pat McCalla
you said, there's this holy reverence that you have for God. And yet how incredible that you can call him papa.
::Pat McCalla
Because he's good.
::Pat McCalla
But let me go back to this. When you're in the arena. Then what? What does that horse start doing that tells you that they're going to allow you to start influencing them? They're allowing. They're starting to trust you. What are you seeing that horse do? And how does that relate to what we do with God?
::Todd Pierce
Yeah.
::Todd Pierce
I can see why you do podcasts. You're great at asking questions, but, those are really big questions. So,
::Todd Pierce
real specifically, what I'm looking for is, I'm reading cuz that the horse, the horse is actually a really great communicator, if you know what to look for. And they have, two different worlds, their eyes
::Todd Pierce
binocular, so their brain doesn't translate information the way ours does.
::Todd Pierce
so because of what's happening on the right side of his world isn't connecting with its left side. They can have two realities, but they can only give their attention to one thing. And so
::Todd Pierce
it's a beautiful thing to watch in a horse, because when they turn their ear towards me, I know that they're watching and they're paying really close attention to me, and all of their scans are going through, what do I do with this guy?
::Todd Pierce
And typically the other ear is looking at the crowd, you know what? What's going on on the other side. And so I'll typically try to get a horse to go around both directions.
::Pat McCalla
to get both ears.
::Todd Pierce
Yeah. Eventually making a turn. When they do face me, I'm going to have both ears pinned right on me. Yeah. And so if
::Todd Pierce
I can get them to bring all of their world back into a single focus and be in front of them now, I just became the center of their reality.
::Todd Pierce
And if they can give me their full attention, it's a face to face encounter that they know that there's something powerful going on, but for some reason they want to become close to it. And so whether I get to approach them or they approach me, it's the same thing that's happening, and it's this exchange that makes it to where Jesus would look at us and, bring us into this invitation that if you just know that all I want for you is for you to discover the the love that I have for you and the potential.
::Todd Pierce
There's this bound up inside of you. And just stay focused long enough to let me have this encounter with you. And then we can
::Todd Pierce
We can do anything. And so it's, you know, and in some people's,
::Todd Pierce
I think, vernacular, they would say that maybe it's a born again experience. It's becoming something different. And it's simply because our devotion becomes centered on something different because their whole world has been
::Todd Pierce
other than that it's been, you know, reactionary to their world.
::Todd Pierce
They've had to figure out how to stay alive. And and even if they're raised in a domestic setting,
::Todd Pierce
there's still survival skills necessary to be around other horses and people. And,
::Todd Pierce
and so even though they may have been dulled a little bit in their senses, so for me, it's, it's, it's the first time encounter for them to know what it's like to have a power that they don't, they're not really familiar with, touch them in a way that makes them feel like they're whole and
::Todd Pierce
everything else isn't matter in that moment.
::Todd Pierce
And so
::Todd Pierce
that's what Jesus to me came to present to us, is that this God is not a far off God that wants to just rule the universe. He's not a power monger. He he created us in his image, and he just wants to be one with us. And if we'll trust that, then there really are no limits to what it is that
::Todd Pierce
the we can do in this aspect of of being human and images of God.
::Pat McCalla
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
Todd this is what's so incredible about what you're doing. Like I don't know if you noticed but you got me to tear up
::Todd Pierce
And.
::Pat McCalla
up when you were describing what that horse is doing. Because a couple of years ago I was really meditating and brewing on that verse in Matthew six, the sermon on the Mount.
::Pat McCalla
Longest message, recorded message we have that Jesus gave where he says, seek first the kingdom
::Pat McCalla
my alarm.
::Pat McCalla
Every hour my alarm would go off and I would just step outside. And I was I was asking myself, what does it really mean to seek first his kingdom, to put all my focus? Well, you just gave me one of the most beautiful pictures because as I told you before we started this podcast, I grew up in western Montana.
::Pat McCalla
Our neighbors had horses. Their pasture was right next to our side on the fence all the time. I grew up riding horses. We didn't have a saddle. We would just throw some reins on them. I don't know horses near like you do, but I, I,
::Pat McCalla
got this instant image of our neighbor's horse when it would sometimes when I was a little boy sitting on the fence and it would turn and I'd see both its ears go toward me.
::Pat McCalla
And so that's why I just teared up
::Todd Pierce
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
like, going, that's what I do with God. When I'm seeking first his kingdom,
::Pat McCalla
putting all my attention on that.
::Pat McCalla
And what a beautiful picture, of that. What happens to that horse
::Pat McCalla
because that's when it's you start seeing it transform.
::Pat McCalla
Right.
::Todd Pierce
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
it's now connected with you. It's putting its ears on you, which is telling you that it's trusting you. You can now influence that.
::Pat McCalla
What starts to happen to that horse in those next moments, then.
::Todd Pierce
Just like us. Every one of them is a bit different. Because now you if you're going to go from. Okay, I'm giving you my full attention, and I'm actually going to let you be in my space if if you're going to touch me now, we're going to start dealing with their story and their past and their preconceived ideas.
::Todd Pierce
you know, that's where all of us and I love the fact that you actually could feel the emotion in this because it is such a sick it it's what we were built to do. And if we've never experienced that, we're actually still looking for that.
::Pat McCalla
Yeah.
::Todd Pierce
And there's got to be something worth all of our attention.
::Todd Pierce
and most of us have gone through enough life. If you're listening to this, you've gone through enough life that you know that there's got to be something worth all of our attention. And it can't be me because all of my self focus or all of
::Todd Pierce
me, me, me, what I whatever it looks like for me to be free,
::Todd Pierce
I keep finding myself confused and and so.
::Todd Pierce
Yeah. And yeah, we
::Todd Pierce
we're just lied to, whether by ourselves or by the, the environments that we're raised in and, the circles that we run in. And so for this horse, the interactions become I am very much,
::Todd Pierce
I'm this way with people. Like, I'm very touchy feely person. I love to hug. I love to just,
::Todd Pierce
so with the horse, I have to have a lot of physical touch.
::Todd Pierce
Not just for the horse, but for me. And. And so I go from the face to typically the right side, because they're left side. The, when people are training horses, they spend most of their time on their left side,
::Todd Pierce
just because that's most horses stories. I'll go to the right side because I want to.
::Todd Pierce
I want them to have as much of a fresh start with me as possible. In the beginning,
::Todd Pierce
I'll help them pass some of their triggers and some of the abuse that they've been through. And they're the ways that I've been, you know, they've misunderstood what someone in authority should do for them or with them. And so, because they've been through enough of the the scars and you can oftentimes see the scars on the animal that, those, those had a lie attached to them.
::Todd Pierce
And so I'm going to
::Todd Pierce
present truth to the lie and bring clarity and freedom. And, you know, to me, there's there's two opposing forces. It's
::Todd Pierce
love and fear. And so any place that they're afraid, I don't just like hone in on that pick on them that I will as, as much as I can find. What are their biggest things that they're afraid of, so that I can get healing as quick as I can to that spot.
::Todd Pierce
That, oh, the last time a person put a rope around you, it hurt. And so this rope is a really scary thing. It was restrictive. It caused you to panic. You know, horses, almost by nature, are, claustrophobic, confined spaces. They just don't do well with them unless they're, how to do that kindly. And so,
::Todd Pierce
the way I can earn trust quickly with a horse is that I can see some of those fear spot and correct the the lie that was attached to that is that when somebody, does this, they're, they're going to hurt me or scare me, and, and so I, I'm undoing those lies so that they can understand what, what it's like to not be afraid.
::Todd Pierce
And, for many people, well, for most people, authority is almost like a
::Todd Pierce
a bad word. It's it's been so misrepresented what it looks like to have people in authority, that when authority looks like something that's making you more whole and not afraid, then I'll follow that.
::Pat McCalla
Yep.
::Todd Pierce
and really
::Todd Pierce
this was another thing that I came up with.
::Todd Pierce
This. This was this was my story. So that's why it's so, so sacred to me
::Pat McCalla
masterful. What you just did there. Taught because I told you I wanted to transition a little bit into your story. So you
::Pat McCalla
So what is that?
::Pat McCalla
Because again, I don't think there's a listener right now that's listening. There's you're driving down the road, they're taking a run, they're taking a walk, or they're cleaning their house while they're listening to this.
::Pat McCalla
And you just talking about the abuse of power, the abuse of authority all of us have, listeners have had that. Maybe it was a dad, a mom, a coach, a teacher, a boss. But we struggled with that. Now, let's go back to your story. What led you to do this with the horses and
::Pat McCalla
where did you struggle with some of this?
::Pat McCalla
Did you have abusive authorities in your life?
::Todd Pierce
Hell, man. Again, great question, big question. I'll give you the short version, and you can ask me any questions you like because there's nothing. That we can't talk about.
::Todd Pierce
But I was raised in a very small community, mountain community in southeast Idaho, and I was around, church. And it was actually a pretty beautiful thing for me, when I was young.
::Todd Pierce
But my social world, was I didn't fit in. It was very predominant,
::Todd Pierce
religious culture that we weren't a part of the pretty not predominant religion. I won't pick on him, so I won't mention it, but,
::Pat McCalla
about.
::Todd Pierce
it's just, you know, we're all capable of that. It's like the predominant influence in the town.
::Todd Pierce
I wasn't a part of. So I was a bit of a rejected. And so socially, I didn't do, well. Super hyper kid. Very small, you know, so a lot of things against me socially.
::Pat McCalla
you get bullied.
::Pat McCalla
was
::Todd Pierce
Yeah. Yeah. Big time.
::Todd Pierce
and so the bullying and then, a very strong dad.
::Todd Pierce
He wasn't abusive, like, he never, there's different variations of it, but to me, I didn't feel abused by my dad, but it was his way. Or. Or not like there was punishment if it wasn't done his way. And punishment was physical. It wasn't abusive type physical.
::Todd Pierce
But I know enough now to know that there was a broken little boy that found safety in animals.
::Todd Pierce
and so because of all of that, the point is, is that animals became my safe place and specifically a horse. And and this horse was, my best friend. And so we just roamed the mountains of Idaho and, did all of it by myself. So looking back, it almost would make you sad for me.
::Todd Pierce
But
::Todd Pierce
to me, it was just a beautiful, Reality is, I. People don't like me that much, but, man, she my horse. She really does. And
::Todd Pierce
I can be me. And we can do crazy things. And we're both more powerful together than we are apart. And, and so being raised in that type of can, situation. And then we went through a pretty bad deal where my dad and mom got hurt by this church that they were a part of, and, so when I was about 12 years old, Jesus was kind of like Santa Claus.
::Todd Pierce
It's like,
::Todd Pierce
something I believed in when I was a kid, but I just grew out of it. And so from that point on, all the way through high school, junior high and high school, I was very violent, angry kid, with people, but still found all of my comfort,
::Todd Pierce
in animals. So if you fast forward,
::Todd Pierce
there was a day when I was in college that I got, approached by a gentleman that, basically told me two things.
::Todd Pierce
Did you know that God loves you and he has a plan for your life? And it wasn't like the words of man, you know, I don't even want to over drama. You can't over, state it. It hit me as though it's the only thing that was real. But I didn't know how to handle it because I didn't trust people.
::Todd Pierce
So I literally hit the table that we were sitting out and got up and left because I felt like I was going to cry, and I'd never cried as long as, you know, I could remember. And and so because tears were well enough in my eyes, I had to get out of there. But I had an encounter with Jesus that made it to where?
::Todd Pierce
That I couldn't forget it. Like I couldn't unhear that. And so I told Jesus, I want to follow you, but I hate your people. And
::Todd Pierce
Yeah, so really, really bad set up. I was pretty much illiterate. I'm in college, mind you. So pretty clever to figure out how to get survive college or not know how to read, but because I couldn't read and because I didn't trust people, I was training horses at the time and there was some horse that was
::Todd Pierce
more reckless than most and it wouldn't stop running.
::Todd Pierce
And I don't remember ever speaking out loud as a horse trainer, but I started speaking out loud to this horse, and everything that I was saying to the horse was exactly what Holy Spirit was saying to me. And it was like a pleading if you would just stop running and if you would trust me, I'll show you things that you've never even dreamt of.
::Todd Pierce
There's like, there's so much locked up inside of you that I want you to discover. And apart from me, you're always going to be this scared and nothing's going to work. You're going to spend your whole life fighting. And. But if you'll come to me and you'll trust me, I'll let you know. I mean, it was just this vocabulary was flowing out of me that was like, not what my soul needed.
::Todd Pierce
And so from that point on, horses became my mentor, and I was being discipled by Holy Spirit through horses. And so many years later,
::Todd Pierce
it was quite a surprise to me to find out that that very, very private, intimate, but to me would have been maybe even embarrassing because, you know, I'm crying with horses and having these Holy Spirit encounters that, I didn't even know
::Todd Pierce
what was happening other than the fact that I was becoming something that I wasn't.
::Todd Pierce
And my wife, I got to see this process.
::Todd Pierce
And so we got married shortly after that, and so that's why, you know, what I'm able to do is still something that's teaching me, it started really back when I needed to find out a way to feel safe, because I didn't trust the church, and I didn't trust people in general.
::Todd Pierce
And I couldn't read the Bible for myself. So I was in an a pretty tough spot.
::Pat McCalla
Wow.
::Pat McCalla
how old were you when that happened. When you were riding the horse around in, the Idaho mountains and you had been bullied and you just kind of felt like this was your only friend. What are you talking, like, eight years old, seven year old, ten year
::Todd Pierce
Like 5 to 12 years old
::Pat McCalla
Okay. 5 to 12.
::Todd Pierce
news.
::Pat McCalla
And then right around 12 is where that stuff happened with your parents at church and all the sudden you're moving away from the church either. So you really don't have a lot to do with God until this encounter
::Todd Pierce
Yeah. As a as a kid, you know, you you believe what you're taught
::Todd Pierce
and so I believed what I was taught and that was I believed in Jesus. I believed and I think as sincerely as you can, that I also believed in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. So
::Todd Pierce
that personal encounter that I had, was, to me,
::Todd Pierce
the moment.
::Todd Pierce
So I'm really, really grateful for the,
::Todd Pierce
the history that I've got leading up to that. And, you know, there's so much that we could talk about as far as how you see yourself.
::Todd Pierce
But,
::Todd Pierce
I only felt like I was actually myself with animals. I didn't feel like I was myself, and I was with people.
::Pat McCalla
You know God will use anything won't he.
::Todd Pierce
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
so much he is pursuing us. C.S. Lewis called him the hound of heaven. He pursues us like a like a dog chasing something.
::Pat McCalla
And for you, it was horses. It's like.
::Todd Pierce
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
like the the Holy Spirit who, like, this is how I'm going to get this guys with horses.
::Pat McCalla
And now this is so cool. Now he's turned that around and had this incredible ministry, and now you're reaching people
::Todd Pierce
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
that story and how how he's giving you that innate ability with horses, you know, and that talent and gift. Again, you could probably drop me in a ring with the horse, and I could not do what you do.
::Pat McCalla
And so you you got this uniqueness about you that God is using. But it was also part of the way he reached you.
::Pat McCalla
I could talk to you for hours, I could
::Pat McCalla
let me jump into a couple of things that you've written or spoken about in the past, and I
::Pat McCalla
on them.
::Pat McCalla
One of the things that you said, as you said, we're the most fatherless generation in history.
::Todd Pierce
Brother.
::Todd Pierce
we'll just use our American history. But
::Todd Pierce
fathers and their kids, mothers and their kids,
::Todd Pierce
sometimes out of necessity and usually out of necessity. They did life together
::Pat McCalla
Yeah.
::Todd Pierce
and
::Todd Pierce
So better work. They they work together and they learn together. And, so as we've evolved and we've got the, the modern things the way that they are just, the necessity of me spending time and being fathered by my own dad or,
::Todd Pierce
our population being fathered by their parents, it's it's just not happening because it's not necessary anymore.
::Todd Pierce
But worse than that is that
::Todd Pierce
so? In the generations before us, if dad was gone, it was because he was gone to work or he was gone to war or he was dead. All those things are bearable because dad's not here. But dads, we know that he still cares about us. He's providing for us. He's doing what he needs to do to serve for his dad.
::Todd Pierce
And that's just a mourning process. But when dad is just not present, meaning he's emotionally not there, or he has chose to just leave.
::Todd Pierce
That's a wound that is new for humans, and we don't have a lot of history on what to do with the fact that dad just wasn't there. Dad didn't care. And not only did I not learn anything from my dad.
::Todd Pierce
His lack of attention, his lack of emotional, emotional availability to me.
::Todd Pierce
Is.
::Todd Pierce
It's made me worse than I would have been had I not had a father. And so when I say fatherless, I'm not talking about whether dad's in the home or not. Which if you know statistics that aren't even in the homes, they're they're making babies, but they're not fathering. And so,
::Todd Pierce
you know, you can go back thousands of years.
::Todd Pierce
And there was a prophet that said, there's going to be a time when I'm going to send an Elijah like prophet, and he's going to win the hearts of fathers back to sons and sons back to fathers. And that's not gender specific. I think that can be, you know, mothers and daughters and, you know, it's it's just the family unit coming together.
::Todd Pierce
And
::Todd Pierce
I don't know why that would have been so relevant unless we were going to find ourselves in a time like we're in right now. So I take that as a very timely scripture to look at. What does it look like for God's voice to be over planet Earth right now, specifically, if we're talking to America right now and say
::Todd Pierce
we need to see the heart, like what matters to me as a dad turned fully towards my family, and
::Todd Pierce
in order for me to do that, I'm going to have to know what to do with me and this influence that we talked about versus authority.
::Todd Pierce
A God was very specific about his assigned man to be the head of the whole. It's an authoritative position that has been so misused that it makes most women that are hearing me right now even cringe to hear a man say, hey, God, said, I'm the one that has the authority in the House. But if that authority was demonstrated, the way that we're talking about is that all of my authority, that means my strength, my everything that I have is to serve this family and to make it to where everybody wins above me and I don't know what woman or what child wouldn't want that type of authority in their life, where we as men,
::Todd Pierce
being fathered by God, are now coming into what it looks like to be masculine and that is to say, have authority that's presented in such a way that so tender and kind and powerful and dangerous.
::Todd Pierce
That.
::Todd Pierce
Everyone around us is going to see that.
::Todd Pierce
always yield to this, because the only thing he wants is for me to be the best that I can be. And there's there's no bullying in that. There's no manipulation. And to it's not self-serving and it it really is what love looks like.
::Todd Pierce
So we're fatherless simply you know, we can blame it on a lot of things, but there is a solution to it.
::Todd Pierce
And when Jesus came and presented that, I'm going to show you what God is fathering like. And so the way he carried himself and the way he taught and the way he used his authority was the way a father would.
::Pat McCalla
And taught I know you would agree with me on this but I can promise promise promise promise. Any man that's listening to this. Especially if you're a young man and you're kind of in the early part of this of your journey, if you will, pour into what Todd is talking about, speaking about to, to have both authority and influence.
::Pat McCalla
And pour yourself into your family if you don't have one now, when you get one right now, pour yourself into preparing for that day.
::Pat McCalla
never, ever regret it.
::Pat McCalla
I know you would agree with me. Yeah. I'm 53. My kids are grown. I have seven grandkids now. And
::Pat McCalla
Just last weekend I was walking through a store, just grocery shopping, and I almost broke down in the middle of an aisle because deep within my soul, I had this gratitude I can't even describe.
::Pat McCalla
But it was around my family. It was around. I was thinking about my kids and my wife and my grandkids and, the the the benefits you will produce someday if you do what Todd is talking about, you can't. They're unimaginable. I can't put them into words. You're not going to regret it.
::Pat McCalla
And it's part of the brokenness of our society, isn't it?
::Pat McCalla
I mean, it's a major part of the brokenness for society that we don't have that more.
::Todd Pierce
Yeah.
::Todd Pierce
I love the, we're both trying to put language to something that we can't find the right words for it because, you know, the way the Bible put it, it's exceedingly abundantly above anything that we could hope, think or imagine. Like there's not a way to articulate this, but there is a way to demonstrate it. And so,
::Todd Pierce
that's why this podcast is going to be so helpful for so many people.
::Todd Pierce
But at the same time,
::Todd Pierce
if you're not having this and if you're not enjoying the oneness that you can have with God as a father, and I say it this way like I'm I'm 54, so I,
::Todd Pierce
now you call me your elder.
::Todd Pierce
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Go ahead on.
::Todd Pierce
So
::Todd Pierce
I've never needed a father more than what I need right now.
::Pat McCalla
So true.
::Todd Pierce
And I'm not growing out of my need to be fathered. And so I do have some great men in my life that my my dad's passed away, but, great men in my life, my life that are fathering me. But mostly that this is what the oneness with God
::Todd Pierce
is in my life is.
::Todd Pierce
I'm being fathered by heaven.
::Todd Pierce
and so it's a, it's a higher calling. It's it's mystical, but it's very practical. And it, it looks like something and, and the only way I know to to say that it looks like something is to the people that I get to be closest to, get to benefit from it. And
::Todd Pierce
yeah, I don't, I don't know if there's anything more worthy of our time
::Pat McCalla
even in our brokenness. Right. Because that's what I found when, when I've really been living out that oneness with the father as you talked about. Because again, none of us were human. We're not going to do it perfectly. I'm not going to be the perfect husband. I'm not going to be the perfect dad. But even in in those times, I can, in humility, come and say, I'm sorry.
::Pat McCalla
you needed for me in this moment. I didn't give that. I'm sorry. And we can go. But that the even that humility is a picture, though,
::Pat McCalla
of being fathered well
::Todd Pierce
Yeah.
::Todd Pierce
Absolutely. Yeah. And I don't I don't know about you,
::Todd Pierce
with no disrespect towards my dad at all, because we we become what we've been taught to do. And unless we choose to do something different, we're stuck. And so I just think my dad was kind of stuck with, me being authority means that I'm never wrong.
::Todd Pierce
And that's just a horrible way to go through life. And and so this lifestyle of repentance,
::Todd Pierce
like, Jesus is pretty, pretty crazy. Like it, like something right now is like, repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent almost sounds like a scary word, especially if you've been raised in church. But if we're supposed to live a lifestyle of repentance, we better know what it looks like, because it's actually one of the greatest gifts that we have.
::Todd Pierce
And I think that your core value around it
::Todd Pierce
would you say something about our choices? We get to make choices in a.
::Pat McCalla
Yeah. We make her choices. And eventually our choices make us.
::Todd Pierce
Yeah. So if we choose to become those that are going to live a lifestyle of repentance, that means that I am going to spend the rest of my life learning how to make these adjustment and cleaning up the mess that I've made. And every you know, you say our in our humanity. Every time I hurt somebody, that is it becomes one of the greatest opportunities I have to actually model what love looks like.
::Todd Pierce
Is it? Oh, I can see that. What I did, that this was wrong. And there's there's actually some steps of me, making the repairs and the adjustments in me that were teachable. And we can be corrected. And and so that's all that repentance looks like to me, is that I'm being adjusted to a higher,
::Todd Pierce
lifestyle and an opportunity to do things better.
::Pat McCalla
So well put Todd I look back and it's kind of a funny story for me. But my kids were younger in the backyard. I was mowing the lawn but I couldn't have, I couldn't get the lawn mower started and I just lost it. It's all of us guys do in moments. And I threw that lawn mower and I if they had lawn mower throwing
::Pat McCalla
I chuck that thing across the yard and I mean, just had a complete meltdown right in front of my three young kids. Funny thing is, my middle son, who thought he was a comedian at the time, the lawn mower lands upside down, leaking oil and gas, and he looks at me and he looks at the more and he says, maybe it'll work now,
::Pat McCalla
but I look back on that moment.
::Pat McCalla
My kids and I've talked about it many times. I didn't always get it right, but in that moment I went and I sat him down on the couch and I got on my knees.
::Todd Pierce
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
knees in front of him and I said, I am so sorry.
::Pat McCalla
know what? What daddy just exhibited out there?
::Pat McCalla
That there wasn't proper behavior. I lost my temper. I need to ask you for forgiveness. And it became really, I mean, something that we've laughed about many times because
::Todd Pierce
I'm. Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
But it's also, even for me, in the future, when I would mess up, I would look back on that and go like, that's what I need to do again. I mean, I may not be there older now, so I may not put him on a couch and get on my knees in front of him, but it has to feel like that.
::Todd Pierce
Right.
::Pat McCalla
we can do that. We can admit that when we have a loving God where we're going, like, he's okay with me. I blew it, but he's okay with me because he's good. Goes
::Pat McCalla
Todd, I mean, I oh, gosh, I wish I could talk to you for hours. I
::Pat McCalla
I have so many more things on my notes I want to talk to you about. But
::Host
As we're wrapping up this episode. Be sure to leave us a five star review. And if you're watching on YouTube, leave a comment on something you'll take away. All right, let's hop back into the remainder of the episode.
::Pat McCalla
how would our audience get connected to you? I want to go to one of these shows where you're doing this. So I want to look it up. Tell us where your audience, our audience, can go to connect with what you're doing.
::Todd Pierce
Well, we have a website so it's writing hi ministries.org. And I know that we have quite a bit of social media that you can access from there.
::Pat McCalla
that's writing hi ministries dawg.
::Todd Pierce
Yes sir.
::Pat McCalla
And I would really encourage, encourage our audience. I mean they've, you know, as, as they have all heard now you guys are doing some great stuff. I'd love to go to one of your shows. I'm going to try to catch one of your shows. And, when I'll come up and say hi to you and just. I'm the bald, bearded guy, so
::Pat McCalla
I'm looking forward to that.
::Pat McCalla
let's just end this way. It's kind of a fun way that we end it. And it's
::Todd Pierce
Okay.
::Pat McCalla
tell this no gray areas, but I'm going to ask you to lie to me. So our audience got to know you a little bit. We're
::Pat McCalla
truths and a lie. So you're going to give me three statements.
::Pat McCalla
Two of them will be true. One will be a lie. I got to try to figure out the lie. So it's a fun way for our audience to get to know you a little
::Todd Pierce
Okay.
::Todd Pierce
I weigh 150 pounds.
::Pat McCalla
Okay.
::Todd Pierce
And
::Todd Pierce
drive a black pickup.
::Todd Pierce
And I own a goat.
::Pat McCalla
Gotcha.
::Pat McCalla
Those are tough. Those are tough. You mentioned earlier that you're a smaller guy, so I'm going to say 150 pounds is true.
::Todd Pierce
Yep.
::Pat McCalla
Okay, I
::Todd Pierce
Yep.
::Todd Pierce
Got it.
::Pat McCalla
chance here.
::Pat McCalla
you know, the only thing I'm wondering if it's a black pickup. I know you have to have a pickup. You gotta have a pickup.
::Pat McCalla
So I'm going to say the black pickup is true.
::Todd Pierce
Yep. You got it? No.
::Todd Pierce
No, my wife wants to. She keep trying. She's baits the neighbor's goats over here with Satan.
::Pat McCalla
Goats eat everything. You lose all the siding on your house, so.
::Todd Pierce
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
I spent the night at one of my friend's house when we were kids, and, we had Cheerios that morning and warm goat's milk in it, like they had just milked the goat, and it was still warm.
::Pat McCalla
I was one of those times where I was trying to be polite, but I could barely get it down. Cheerios with warm goat's milk in it
::Todd Pierce
No.
::Todd Pierce
Yeah. No, I've got childhood scars over that. I used to milk goats when I was a kid, and so the smell of goat anything is repulsive.
::Pat McCalla
I hear you, Todd. Thank you so, so much.
::Pat McCalla
Proud of you, brother.
::Pat McCalla
to say because, as you said earlier, you're a few months older than me, but. But I mean that brother to brother. Like I'm proud of what you're doing. You're having a massive impact for the kingdom. And, I think you're helping draw people's hearts back to God.
::Pat McCalla
And really, I get the idea of the depth of what it means to be one with our father, which is incredible.
::Todd Pierce
Yeah.
::Todd Pierce
Yeah. Thank you.
::Host
Thanks for tuning in to this incredible conversation with Todd Pearce. His stories remind us that true authority is rooted in love, and that no matter what age we are, we never outgrow our need for a good father. This episode resonated with you. Be sure to subscribe and share it with someone who needs to be reminded that their sin known and deeply loved.
::Host
See you next time on no gray areas.
