The Masculinity Shift: Are We Getting Manhood All Wrong? | Ep. 110 with Joel Sinclair
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In this powerful episode of the No Grey Areas podcast, Joel Sinclair, podcaster and advocate for men’s purpose, sits down with host Patrick McCalla to dive deep into the crisis of masculinity in today’s world. From redefining what it means to be a man, to addressing the confusion and challenges men face in society, Joel shares his mission to help men rediscover their role as spiritual leaders in their homes and communities.
Joel passionately discusses how modern culture’s portrayal of masculinity—whether as toxic or irrelevant—leaves men feeling disconnected, unsure, and isolated. The conversation also tackles the importance of resilience, emotional control, and taking responsibility for one’s actions. As men, we need to embrace discomfort, overcome fear, and redefine strength—not just in how we act but in how we lead by example.
This episode is not only a wake-up call to men to step into their rightful roles as leaders but also a challenge to reevaluate how we view manhood, purpose, and identity. Joel’s insights will help you break through the confusion, embrace vulnerability, and ultimately lead your life with integrity and purpose. Watch or listen to the full episode to hear how you can reclaim your masculinity and live with intention, as God intended.
No Grey Areas is a motivational podcast with captivating guests centered around how our choices humanize, empower, and define who we become. This podcast is inspired by the cautionary tale, No Grey Areas, written by Joseph Gagliano. Learn more about the truth behind his story involved with sports' biggest scandal at https://www.nogreyareas.com/
Transcript
Host
What does it truly mean to be a man or to man up in today's world? Today I sit down with Joel Sinclair, a podcaster and advocate, and helping men find their inner purpose in a society that often blurs men's roles. Here we go.
::Pat McCalla
Joel. Thank you so much for joining us on the No Gray Areas podcast. There's
::Pat McCalla
some synergy that we have, obviously.
::Joel Sinclair
So I have two kids in the
::Pat McCalla
Marine Corps. My dad was in the Marine Corps. You and your wife are in the Marine Corps.
::Pat McCalla
Your wife's parents were in the Marine
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
there's.
::Joel Sinclair
Her whole.
::Joel Sinclair
Most of her family.
::Joel Sinclair
You were eight years. Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
mainly as an MP.
::Joel Sinclair
You were sharing that? Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
all over the world.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. Yeah. Traveled a little bit. I got to I got.
::Joel Sinclair
To do a fair amount of traveling with it, so it's.
::Joel Sinclair
Fun.
::Pat McCalla
But one of the reasons that we wanted to have you on here, and I think there's, again, some real synergy with what our messaging is and what you're messaging is
::Joel Sinclair
on the
::Pat McCalla
podcast. We're about the whole idea of the power and complexity of human choice that we make our choices, and eventually our choices make us.
::Pat McCalla
But you have a deep passion. It seems like God has given you deep passion for
::Pat McCalla
what does it mean to be a man? And we're in a culture that either pushes is, as you said, either toxic masculinity or this buffoon type. Like
::Joel Sinclair
that that's
::Pat McCalla
represented, right?
::Joel Sinclair
You're
::Pat McCalla
toxic or you're this buffoon.
::Pat McCalla
so let's just jump in and start talking about that
::Pat McCalla
and why you care so deeply about this
::Joel Sinclair
It's really something God laid on my heart.
::Joel Sinclair
So
::Joel Sinclair
when I got out of.
::Joel Sinclair
The Marine Corps, I kind of went through a period of what's next? We talked a little bit about that.
::Joel Sinclair
And eventually God, opened doors and led me to go into a Christian apologetics program, that I completed. And after finishing that, well, actually, while I was still in there, I started working at, a ministry that focused on on families.
::Joel Sinclair
And I as I was doing that, some of the feedback we got there was 80 of anything directly for men that, that, that men can use. So while there,
::Joel Sinclair
I started praying about that. And that's when God really laid on my heart to, to start this mission of equipping men to just fulfill their biblical role as men, you know, to be spiritual leaders in their homes, to be engaged with their families, to be culture makers out in our society, and that sort of thing.
::Pat McCalla
mean by culture makers? I like
::Joel Sinclair
that. Yeah.
::Joel Sinclair
I, I, I use that.
::Joel Sinclair
Term to mean we have to be out in our communities and affecting them in positive ways. I think as men, we tend to isolate. We go to work, we go home. And, you know, we kind of lock the door behind us and that's all we want. We don't want to engage with other people. We don't want to be involved in what's, what's going on in society.
::Joel Sinclair
And oftentimes we don't know because we're consumed with, you know, work. We got to keep the house standing. You know, parent the kids and that sort of thing. And a lot of times we don't even know what's what our kids are dealing with. And so when I say culture makers, we've got to be taking our biblical role outside of our home and our church and applying that to the different spheres in our lives.
::Joel Sinclair
You know, our communities
::Joel Sinclair
work sphere, our social sphere. Yeah.
::Joel Sinclair
Your biblical worldview can't just be something you you apply at church and in the privacy of your own home. Our faith can't be private. We have to be living that out in practical ways.
::Pat McCalla
, you know, going back almost: ::Pat McCalla
But when you're taken into Babylon, I want you to be good citizens.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
And what that we might be able to rephrase that and say, I want you to be culture makers
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
in enemy territory for them, like so. So that's a
::Pat McCalla
kind of a biblical mandate that we have
::Joel Sinclair
for
::Pat McCalla
Jesus followers, isn't it? Is to be culture makers.
::Pat McCalla
But you're saying, especially as men, we need to be that, and not just like you said in the in the four walls of the church, in the four walls of our home. But even outside of that.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. I think when you going all the way back to Genesis, when, when God gave Adam and Eve the garden and said, you are the caretakers of my creation, did he didn't just mean to to pet some animals and till the ground, you know, we are to cultivate, culture and things like that as well. It wasn't just a mandate to care for crops and animals.
::Joel Sinclair
We're we're to build societies in ways that are God honoring.
::Pat McCalla
I love that you take it all the way back to the beginning of the narrative, the beginning of the
::Joel Sinclair
story, because
::Pat McCalla
you're right
::Pat McCalla
the beginning of the narrative shows that we as humans are created the pinnacle of God's creation. We're creating the image. But what you're saying is that it started in a garden, but it extended out to societies and cities and communities
::Joel Sinclair
and cultures,
::Pat McCalla
and we were put in control or given the mandate of,
::Pat McCalla
defining culture or
::Joel Sinclair
helping to define
::Pat McCalla
culture right, in a healthy way,
::Joel Sinclair
Absolutely a
::Pat McCalla
healthy way.
::Pat McCalla
Yeah.
::Joel Sinclair
And I think that starts in our homes. I'm not saying neglect our children and our families at all. It starts there. But it can't stop there. We have to take that out into especially our local communities.
::Pat McCalla
yeah.
::Pat McCalla
what are some things when you talk about that that that in our culture it's either manhood is seeing is toxic. Like that's
::Joel Sinclair
it. We
::Pat McCalla
hear often toxic masculinity or or is buffoons. And if you don't believe that, just turn on the TV
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. So for the last 20 years. Absolutely.
::Pat McCalla
And that's kind of the two ways that a dad or a leader of the home is kind of portrayed often
::Pat McCalla
is either toxic or is a buffoon.
::Pat McCalla
where do you think that came from? Or where does that come from? And how should we deal with it?
::Joel Sinclair
I think, at the heart of it, it is a desire to undo the nuclear family because the nuclear family really is the bedrock of civilization. When you think about it, and I think that always has been. Yeah, that goes back to the very beginning as well. So
::Joel Sinclair
what's at the root of that? What is the devil's purpose?
::Joel Sinclair
His goal is to undo everything God gave. Yeah. Yeah. So and the best way to do that is to undo the nuclear family. And I think that's the heart of it. And like you said, we see things. I remember being a kid. I grew up in the 90s, you know, really my coming of age kind of time.
::Joel Sinclair
And you're right. Every sitcom I commonly cite that example to every sitcom was a buffoonish dad that had to have his hand held by, you know, the right family. Right?
::Joel Sinclair
And now we're seeing the last few years we've really seen an attack on masculinity. Now, I agree that there are there is a type of toxic masculinity.
::Joel Sinclair
But the notion that any masculinity is toxic is a lie. Yeah. Our families need masculinity. Our societies need masculinity. Our churches need masculinity. How do we know that? Because God made sure God made it so that we need a man and a woman to form a family. You know, you need both. It's not that men are more important than women, but you need both of those men.
::Joel Sinclair
Can't be, you know, moms can't be dads and dads can't be moms. Yeah. You know, so,
::Joel Sinclair
think that's what the heart of it is. And, you know, when we just see any the, you know, the war on masculinity in our society is just to to undo that.
::Pat McCalla
What do you think some of those challenges are that we face as men? Like, you talk about the war on masculinity,
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah,
::Pat McCalla
think I don't think you're overstating that. I think
::Joel Sinclair
that
::Pat McCalla
definitely is a war against masculinity.
::Pat McCalla
What are some of the challenges that men face today?
::Joel Sinclair
this kind of goes back to the sexual revolution in, you know, decades ago, in the 60s and things when, when things really started. But, just being a masculine person, a man, you know, is going to be, attacked anymore, like the idea that men are the spiritual leaders of their home is unpopular in, in, secular society a lot of times, and the idea that men are kind of unnecessary, you know, just
::Joel Sinclair
provide a paycheck or provide,
::Joel Sinclair
you know, the seed to have a child, is unnecessary.
::Joel Sinclair
I think that's a lot of issues, that people are currently facing. And again, I don't want it to come across as weepy for us men. It just there seems to be a pretty clear, objective to to marginalize the importance of men and the data is just not bearing that out. We also see a particularly, in young people, you know, young men are being told that manhood is, more feminine.
::Joel Sinclair
You see what I'm saying? You see, with I we can go, you know, the transgender rabbit hole, you know,
::Joel Sinclair
that sort of thing. But you also see women being encouraged to be more like men. So you see, like a switching of the roles and the impact that is having on,
::Joel Sinclair
young people is just devastating. They're confused.
::Joel Sinclair
you're seeing a crisis of identity and meaning and purpose and that sort of thing.
::Joel Sinclair
And that's that's the natural consequence. Yeah, of not understanding men and women as created in the image of God. And the different roles he has is for we can't confuse, equality with sameness. Men and women are equal. We're not the same.
::Pat McCalla
Don't confuse
::Joel Sinclair
equality with sameness. Yes, we're equal in the eyes of God. We're not the same.
::Joel Sinclair
And that's by design.
::Pat McCalla
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
Well said. It's so you have such an important message because I think it's. It's always confusing. Always been confusing somewhat. Every culture throughout human history to grow up as a girl and understand. What does it mean to be a woman, to grow up as a boy and understand what it be means to be a man?
::Pat McCalla
It's always been somewhat confusing, but I think culturally and that's what you're bringing up
::Pat McCalla
today. It's really difficult and that's why your message is so important. It's so difficult. And I'm going to talk specifically again about the area that you're focused on for a young boy today. By the time they become 12 or 13 or 14 or 15 or 16, if you were to ask them, what does it mean to be a man?
::Pat McCalla
I think that a lot of them would really struggle
::Joel Sinclair
with. Yeah,
::Joel Sinclair
I think so. And I think we're hitting a point where men of middle age are probably unsure of what it actually means, because, you know, when you think about a problem, if it just continues to grow, if you don't deal with it, you're going to eventually end up with men who don't know how to be men. And they're then that you can't teach what you don't have.
::Joel Sinclair
You know what I mean?
::Pat McCalla
Oh, yeah. So you just extended. I said 12, 13,
::Joel Sinclair
14,
::Pat McCalla
15, 16 year old has a hard time explaining what a man is you're saying. I think a lot of 40 or 50 year olds would have a hard time explaining. What does it mean to be a man?
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. I mean, yeah.
::Joel Sinclair
Going into that, that age bracket, because when
::Joel Sinclair
one of the things that blew me away was when I was looking at some information, a while back, they say adolescence can extend up to like age 28 now, like you're almost 30 years old, and we're supposed to consider that adolescence. We forget that there was a time that there wasn't even adolescence wasn't even a category.
::Joel Sinclair
It's
::Pat McCalla
a new idea
::Pat McCalla
human
::Joel Sinclair
It really is. There was a time.
::Joel Sinclair
There was a time where you were a boy, and then you had your rite of passage, whatever that was, a ritual or whatever. And then you were a man. The adolescence. I don't think most people understand that, that adolescence is a relatively new phenomenon.
::Joel Sinclair
Yes.
::Joel Sinclair
And now the fact that you're almost 30 years old and can be considered an adolescent,
::Joel Sinclair
that's frightening.
::Joel Sinclair
It's so
::Pat McCalla
crazy. I mean, you can tell you, you you hit a nerve with me on this one.
::Pat McCalla
me crazy. All the different ages we even had have now, like, at 18, you can. I don't know, you can smoke now, but you can't drink. You can get a driver's license and such, and that's such an age.
::Pat McCalla
But you can't run a car until such. But but not that long ago. Even in our country, at 18 years old, you were considered an adult,
::Joel Sinclair
And we never treated you like right.
::Pat McCalla
But you're right. It's kind of morphed into this. Well, like, okay, well, you're 24, you're still a kid. Like, no you're not.
::Pat McCalla
And most cultures throughout history had that, like you're saying, a celebration
::Joel Sinclair
at
::Pat McCalla
some point, whether it be 13 or 16, where we're where they would tell a little girl you were a girl yesterday, and because we're doing the ceremony, we are now considering you a woman.
::Pat McCalla
And
::Joel Sinclair
the same thing would
::Pat McCalla
happen with boys in our culture talking about the American culture. We really haven't. We don't have that.
::Joel Sinclair
No we don't. And, it's just kind of bizarre all around. Like you said, the different, different, age restrictions that don't seem to always line up. You can your son, for example, you can join the military at 18, but you can't rent a car until you're 25. Yeah, yeah. And I'm not
::Joel Sinclair
taking a stance on any one of those.
::Joel Sinclair
It just shows we.
::Joel Sinclair
As a society. Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm sure, and I get that too.
::Joel Sinclair
But just we as a society don't know what it means to be a man. And, again, like I said, you can't teach. What? What you don't have, and we've got to figure.
::Joel Sinclair
What you don't.
::Joel Sinclair
Have. We've got to figure out
::Joel Sinclair
what that means. Yeah. It and yeah. How we can pass that on. Because that's how you keep society going. That's how civilization continues to flourish. You know, another example is there was a time when you graduated from high school, and if you wanted to go off to college, you did that for X number of years and then you went out into the workforce.
::Joel Sinclair
But what's common now? People go to college and then they come home and live with their parents again. And I'm not making a judgment on that's always bad. You know, context matters in certain situations. But, you know, again, going back to you, we've got 28 year olds that are considered adolescent and we're not
::Joel Sinclair
what I call Peter Pan syndrome or perpetual adolescence.
::Joel Sinclair
You know, we've got generations now, of young men who never grow into men. And now I think we are running into an issue where we're hitting a point where there are middle aged men who don't know what that looks like.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Joel Sinclair
You know, and that's just that's what happens with any problem when you let it get out of control.
::Pat McCalla
One of my favorite moments with, all three of my kids are adults now, and I'm a grandparent now, but I'm one of my favorite moments with coaches when my kids were younger and playing is my son's freshman coach. So he's a freshman in high school, and I remember his coach at the parents meetings before
::Joel Sinclair
the season
::Pat McCalla
starts, and this was at a public school, and the coach was saying, listen,
::Pat McCalla
if you had a problem with your son's playing time, you know, all the things that coaches
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah,
::Pat McCalla
He goes, I don't want to see you as a parent because I'm going to be telling your son in practice that I believe that he's a young man now, and I'm going to be treating him like a young man and expecting him to start acting like a young man. So if he has a problem with his playing time, guess who needs to come and talk to me?
::Pat McCalla
Your son, not you.
::Joel Sinclair
And I was like, oh, I wanted.
::Joel Sinclair
To stand up to.
::Pat McCalla
hug that guy because I'm like, oh, there's a guy that's understanding that part of his role as a coach to freshman in high school was to start teaching them what it means to be an adult or a man, in
::Joel Sinclair
it.
::Joel Sinclair
Yes.
::Joel Sinclair
I think that's a great example. Because we tend to want to and I get the instinct as a parent to want to protect our kids from everything. But the reality is we're we're not helping them when we do that, you know, we have to let them experience discomfort and failure, you know, because they're going to have that in life.
::Joel Sinclair
I don't know about you, but I've I've experienced failure in my life. And that's it can be a great motivator. Yeah.
::Joel Sinclair
Same here.
::Joel Sinclair
And it can be a great motivator to do better. You know it can be a great teacher. Failure can. I would rather my kids fail while they're still living with me. And I can control that a little bit than when they're out on their own and never experience failure, you know, and so that, you know, along the lines of what we're talking about.
::Joel Sinclair
And there's studies showing that that young people have no resilience, they don't know how to, you know, in the Marine Corps adapt and overcome.
::Joel Sinclair
You probably heard that from your son. Yes. We we don't know how to deal with any obstacles, any struggles, because we we've never had to we don't have any resilience, you know, and, the mind is just like a muscle.
::Joel Sinclair
It has to be trained, it has to be developed, you know, and if we're not learning, if we're not developing and cultivating any kind of mental toughness, we're we're hurting ourselves, you know, and we see that in our society has I mean, just meltdowns any time you don't get what you want. And we see that with adults, you know, I mean, I don't know if you want to have this in here, but like the elections and without going into, you know, that whole rabbit hole.
::Joel Sinclair
But how many people
::Joel Sinclair
for or against were going on social media and just melting down? It's like, oh my goodness, you're a grown adult.
::Joel Sinclair
yeah. No.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah, yeah.
::Joel Sinclair
And that sort of thing. But that's when you get what you get
::Joel Sinclair
when you don't have any kind of struggles in any, you know, when you don't learn how to overcome anything like that, you end up with that, this attitude that I should always get what I want. And when I don't, something unjust is happened.
::Pat McCalla
it's so great that you bring that up because we had, guests on our podcast, and, it's one of the things that he brought up is he was saying one of the the most important things you can help your kids learn is resiliency.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
And the only way you can teach your kids resiliency is you have to let them struggle.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
You can't rescue them all the time. And what that will look like will be different for different ages. But you. But you have to do that.
::Pat McCalla
let me ask you to speaking on this, because I think
::Pat McCalla
here's a phrase that a lot of us. I'm I'm 53. I turn 54 next, next week. So this is a phrase I heard a long time ago.
::Pat McCalla
For me. Now it's going back almost half a century up. Man up.
::Pat McCalla
But that's a that's a dangerous phrase
::Joel Sinclair
It is.
::Pat McCalla
because the way I heard that phrase when I was growing up, whether it be from teachers, coaches or my own dad was man up man, like, stop crying like a man
::Joel Sinclair
doesn't cry,
::Pat McCalla
which I don't agree with at all.
::Joel Sinclair
right?
::Pat McCalla
I don't think I was modeled. Toxic masculinity. But it became a masculinity that was confusing for me later, where I would hear that phrase like, man up, man up.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah,
::Pat McCalla
Not a not a bad phrase to use,
::Pat McCalla
but only if we help that young boy or that young man understand what we mean when we say
::Joel Sinclair
right?
::Pat McCalla
So
::Pat McCalla
when that phrase is used in a healthy way, what would that mean? Or what would that look like? If we were to say, man up to a six year old boy or a 15 year old boy? How would we help them understand what that means in a healthy way?
::Host
Hey, we hope you've enjoyed this episode so far. Be sure to like and subscribe to not miss a future podcast! Okay, let's get back to the episode.
::Joel Sinclair
There's a lot there.
::Joel Sinclair
And that goes back to what I said at the beginning. There is such thing as toxic masculinity. If
::Joel Sinclair
man up is drinking excessively or jumping from bed to bed with whoever you want. And that's sort of.
::Joel Sinclair
Often thought.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah, right. That is a toxic masculinity, because that's not what being a man is. You know, manhood, like any truth come,
::Joel Sinclair
is grounded in the Bible. Truth comes from God. Biblical masculinity is true, you know? So man up to me. There is a time where as men, we have to kind of man up. We have to show some resiliency.
::Joel Sinclair
We have to be a voice of calm and reason, particularly if our family is going through a struggle. Maybe there's a financial hardship. For example, going on, we I do believe that part of being the leaders of our home is putting on that brave face and saying, hey, we're going to get through this. We're going to continue to pray and seek the Lord through this, and he's going to bring us through this being, that face for our men.
::Joel Sinclair
There's for our families. There is a time to to to be again that reassuring, confident, quiet strength for our families. And I think they count on us for that.
::Pat McCalla
You know, I'm jotting down a write down some things
::Pat McCalla
that may be watching.
::Pat McCalla
If we just started making a list of what it means, my question was like, what does it mean if we said to man up to a young boy, but it was not in a toxic way, it was for them to
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
And and you started let me, let me read some of the list that
::Joel Sinclair
Sure
::Pat McCalla
gave, which were, I think, really good. And I want you to add to it or maybe explain some of these if you want to. But you said there's a resiliency. When we say to man up, it means that there's a there's got to be a resiliency there.
::Pat McCalla
There's got to be a voice of reason. There's got to be a reassuring
::Joel Sinclair
yeah, there's
::Pat McCalla
got to be a quiet strength. I love that phrase. Those are some things that would be included in what it means to, in a healthy way. Man up.
::Joel Sinclair
Right.
::Joel Sinclair
Well, it's kind of like,
::Joel Sinclair
again, I.
::Joel Sinclair
I think in Marine Corps terms a lot if you're in a, some kind of conflict and armed conflict and your leader's throwing his hands up or laying down on the ground crying and say, you know, I don't know, melting down, you know, I don't know what we're going to do here. Is that going to instill confidence in you or you going to want to follow that person?
::Joel Sinclair
Is that going to be any kind of reassurance? So I liken it to that. You know, obviously we're usually not dealing with something like that as the husband and fathers in our homes, but that's what I say. When we've got to be that confidence, we've got to, you know, because as our mentality and attitude and behavior goes, so goes the rest of our families.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. You know, are you going to have a negative influence on them or a positive influence, or are you going to, help the situation or are you going to make it worse? You know, those are that's the kind of thing. I mean, when I if I hear man up, then, hey, let's calm down, take a step back, let's evaluate what's going on here, and let's decide how to be most effective in our response to that.
::Joel Sinclair
I mean, I love what you just said there.
::Joel Sinclair
I mean, there's a million different specific situations you could apply that to for
::Pat McCalla
sure.
::Pat McCalla
But you you've got some little your kids are like nine down
::Joel Sinclair
Yep.
::Pat McCalla
and you have five kids
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. You're
::Pat McCalla
you're you're busy. But,
::Pat McCalla
when you, when you're starting to teach your boys what that would mean, man up, you're not saying to them, man up. Like, stop crying, you little baby.
::Joel Sinclair
No, no, no, not at all.
::Pat McCalla
you're saying, man up.
::Pat McCalla
Let's take a step back. Let's take a breath. Let's figure it out. Like you just failed at this or this didn't work. Or you tried this and didn't work. So what man up means is we're we're going to find a way.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah, that's.
::Pat McCalla
that's kind of what you would be helping them learn that that means.
::Joel Sinclair
Right? Right.
::Pat McCalla
that that's manhood and humanity
::Joel Sinclair
right? Yeah. No,
::Pat McCalla
But that's part of it. Right?
::Joel Sinclair
Absolutely.
::Joel Sinclair
I don't know how your boys were when they were younger. Again, my boys are pretty young, but they can get angry and they want to resort to screaming.
::Joel Sinclair
You are going to bring up anger. Yeah. Scream, because, I mean.
::Joel Sinclair
Men aren't emotional. Yes, we are. We just get angry.
::Joel Sinclair
That's an emotion to throw at you. But wait.
::Joel Sinclair
Wait until they're teenagers.
::Joel Sinclair
I can only.
::Joel Sinclair
And they
::Pat McCalla
do that whole thing where. Because I think all boys do I remember do it with my dad. And I could look back on the day and go like, oh, man, if I would have follow through with
::Joel Sinclair
that.
::Pat McCalla
And I can remember when my teenage because anger is, I think, just I mean, all of us as humans have it. But boys carried a little bit more, maybe the testosterone,
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah,
::Pat McCalla
they get to the teenage years. And I can remember one time where my son got he came up on me like, and I'm like, oh, son,
::Joel Sinclair
Don't do that. There's no way you could win. But yeah, so just.
::Joel Sinclair
Walking through him like that, how do you handle your anger? And rather than letting your anger control you? Because the Bible, I mean, the Proverbs is full of them. You know, a fool acts in his anger. This is the Jill Sinclair translation. Yeah. Anyway.
::Joel Sinclair
But yeah, a.
::Joel Sinclair
Foolish man acts out in anger. You know, the tongue has power of life and death, you know? How do we control ourselves, keep control of ourselves rather than letting our anger and emotions control us? You know, that sort of thing. What? How I would walk through them. Is it how what what should you do instead of hitting your brother because you got angry, you know, how do we respond to that?
::Joel Sinclair
In a better way? What's what's a better option here?
::Joel Sinclair
You
::Pat McCalla
just did there is masterful because again, I think that's where some again, humans in general, but especially boys, were confused on how to deal with emotions. Because a lot of times, in fact, the way I was, I had a strict disciplinarian father, and I was I was a pretty strict disciplinarian dad.
::Pat McCalla
If I and I've told my boys if I could go back because especially my middle son talking to you, Josiah,
::Pat McCalla
he's so much like me. But, man, he really struggle with anger in his and I, and I did. I mean, I scared myself sometimes how bad my temper was, and I remember thinking myself like, if I don't get Ahold of my anger, I'm going to I'm going to
::Joel Sinclair
end up. Yeah,
::Pat McCalla
in prison someday.
::Pat McCalla
But the way it was dealt with with me is like, you don't talk to your mom like that. And it's the way I dealt with it with my son sometimes. And if I could go back, I'd be like, I'm not going to let you talk to your mom like that, but let's go for a walk, son. And then when we go for a walk, I'm like, what's going on?
::Pat McCalla
Why are you showing bringing up some of those things? Like, you know, the Bible talks about a man who can't control his temper is like a city without walls.
::Joel Sinclair
right?
::Pat McCalla
you're gonna go through life and do a lot of stupid stuff, a feel for how to get a
::Joel Sinclair
home. Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
So that's what you're talking about. You
::Pat McCalla
will help your boys learn what manhood is.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. Teaching them and.
::Joel Sinclair
And again, my, my, my boys are pretty young. But as they get older, like
::Joel Sinclair
helping them learn how to pick a battle. What is really worth putting your foot down and saying no more. There's a lot of issues in our culture that I feel like men need to stand up and say this, this no more. You know, this is harmful to our kids.
::Joel Sinclair
This is destroying our family. This is destroying society, that sort of thing. But, you know, that comes with maturity and that comes with, you know, wisdom and discernment from the Lord. You know what? What is worth as a man fighting for versus what is is not worth? You know what? Sometimes you have to walk away from the fool.
::Joel Sinclair
Or become a fool. Yeah. By staying there, you know that. Those kind of things.
::Joel Sinclair
What I would also say in the, the opposite is that manhood is not never, you know, hiding all your emotions and just tucking that all inside. We need to be able to, to be open and honest about, you know, our struggles in our field fears, you know, with our wife, with our close knit friends that, you know, that we can iron sharpens iron kind of thing.
::Joel Sinclair
We we need to be open and honest about that because pretending like we don't have those fears and struggles, they're going to consume you.
::Pat McCalla
I wanted to go there and I'm so glad you did, because, I mean, I look back on my own life and many men that I've talked to that are in their 40s and 50s now. It's one of the things that they struggle with the most as they go. Yeah, I think looking back, what I learned that manhood was when someone said man up, that it meant, put those emotions away,
::Pat McCalla
And the thing is, is the emotions are real. Like, you can't
::Joel Sinclair
Right. Always
::Pat McCalla
trust them, but they're real. And so what would have been better is for me and these other guys that I work with or talk to now to learn how to deal with those emotions rather than just pretend they're not there, like
::Joel Sinclair
put them
::Pat McCalla
anxiety down like so.
::Pat McCalla
Courage and fear, they go together.
::Joel Sinclair
right?
::Joel Sinclair
You can't have one courage right? There's no such thing as courage without fear.
::Joel Sinclair
But
::Pat McCalla
What? I think a lot of times young people and I say this people in general, but boys we're talking about specifically here are taught that man up means you shouldn't be afraid.
::Joel Sinclair
It's
::Pat McCalla
dumb, you are afraid.
::Pat McCalla
But
::Joel Sinclair
yeah,
::Pat McCalla
courage is facing
::Joel Sinclair
right.
::Pat McCalla
whatever this is in the face of fear
::Joel Sinclair
and courage is a.
::Joel Sinclair
Virtue.
::Pat McCalla
Yeah, yeah.
::Joel Sinclair
And then
::Pat McCalla
anxiety. Like you shouldn't be anxious. Why would you be afraid? Or why would you be anxious about this? Well, you can have peace and anxiety the same time. In fact, peace without anxiety. What is that really
::Joel Sinclair
Right. So.
::Joel Sinclair
Well, to go through life with no anxiety is not
::Joel Sinclair
realistic. It's not letting the anxiety consume us. Yeah, you know, and.
::Pat McCalla
young boys how to do that. Right.
::Joel Sinclair
Right.
::Joel Sinclair
You know, and again, looking at the military, for example, there was a long period of time where they had that masculinity where you never had you show no weakness. You're not allowed to have any emotions that would be considered feminine, anything like that. And what's happened in the last 20 years, we're seeing that that's not healthy, because now you have all these, military men and women coming home with all of these mental scars as well.
::Joel Sinclair
You know, we saw it with a lot of Vietnam veterans, unfortunately, really a lot of, baggage, for lack of a better term, that they didn't know how to deal with because they weren't supposed to. You you keep that to yourself. And now we've seen, you know, PTSD and you know, how prevalent that really is in the benefit of helping people work through those things and the positive impact that has on their mental health.
::Joel Sinclair
Same kind of thing with men.
::Joel Sinclair
We've got to be able to have those outlets. God didn't make us to be our own individual islands. We need those people again, our wives and our close friends that we can really be open with about the struggles we have because we all have them. I mean, I don't know about you, but I still struggle with different sin in my life.
::Joel Sinclair
You know what are the things that tend to bring us down.
::Joel Sinclair
Enough
::Pat McCalla
for me to share mine.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah, I get you.
::Joel Sinclair
You know, and that also opens up
::Joel Sinclair
the avenue for accountability, which is something men really need. We can't go it alone as much as we like to think so,
::Pat McCalla
that's a thing that we were subtly I think we
::Joel Sinclair
Right. We
::Pat McCalla
picked up that man up. Means
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
is you go this alone, you're the Lone Ranger. You're the
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
and what you're saying is, man, that's a dangerous place to
::Joel Sinclair
It can. Yeah. It's not going to. It's not going to go. Anywhere. Well, you know, we think about
::Joel Sinclair
the sin in our lives that we. Right bring that it out into the open is the really the first step to overcoming that, you know, because we're not gonna we we can't do that alone. And if we're not, what else?
::Joel Sinclair
Think about this. What else does that teach you? Man up. Keep it. You know, you just figure out how to handle that. We're not even involving God in that. We're trying to do it our own way, under our own power. And that's not gonna work. We're broken people.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah,
::Pat McCalla
Open up a history book and
::Joel Sinclair
you know,
::Pat McCalla
well that's worked
::Joel Sinclair
well
::Pat McCalla
throughout the ages. Right.
::Joel Sinclair
The Bible is filled with, great stories of very broken men.
::Pat McCalla
So how would you say that you deal with helping young men, young boys, or us as adult men. And then I'm going to say humans in general. How do we deal with mistakes? Failure. Because the
::Pat McCalla
like, I can imagine right now that some of our listeners are listening to this and just filled with shame because
::Joel Sinclair
they're like,
::Pat McCalla
oh my goodness, I, you know, I'm a terrible dad or I'm a terrible model of this, or I'm a terrible human being.
::Pat McCalla
How do we deal with the shame and the brokenness that we have?
::Joel Sinclair
I think you have to acknowledge it, but not let it become your identity.
::Joel Sinclair
Does that make sense? I mean,
::Joel Sinclair
first step to fixing any problem is to acknowledge it's there. You know, whether you're an addict or somebody that struggles with anger or, you know, whatever the case is, we all have our issues. Acknowledging it is vital.
::Pat McCalla
What's the difference between acknowledging and not
::Joel Sinclair
It's a good question.
::Joel Sinclair
I remember and this is years ago, our pastor talking about walking around with like a sin cloud over you. You know, that you're just you're you're living in who you were and not living in who you are now, right? What happens, when we accept Christ as our Savior, our sins are washed away.
::Joel Sinclair
It doesn't mean we're never going to sin again. But we're forgiven, right? We're forgiven. And we have to live in that new identity as, you know, a follower of Christ and a child of God. Right? And that,
::Joel Sinclair
with the power of the Holy Spirit, you know, to to, to change those mistakes. That's the point of,
::Joel Sinclair
shutting off our, our old self.
::Joel Sinclair
You know, it's you have to acknowledge it without letting it consume you. As this is just who I am. I can't do any different. I'll never. I'm not good enough for God. That's a lie of the devil that you are that person. That's the message of the gospel, is that accepting Christ, you become a new person and we have to live in that again, not with the understanding that we'll never sin again, because we will.
::Pat McCalla
know what? I love how you answered that where we acknowledge it, but it doesn't become our identity.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah,
::Pat McCalla
That really leads to a life of humility, doesn't
::Joel Sinclair
Sure. Again,
::Pat McCalla
again, when people think about the the model of man up, what
::Joel Sinclair
does that actually
::Pat McCalla
mean? That's that's that arrogant, abusive,
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
Lone Ranger tie all
::Joel Sinclair
the time.
::Joel Sinclair
I don't need anybody kind of thing.
::Pat McCalla
anybody.
::Pat McCalla
Women are just
::Pat McCalla
to serve me.
::Joel Sinclair
That's what
::Pat McCalla
the role of a woman, you know that. And jumping from bed to bed. That's what that term often meant. But when you start living out, even when you're failures and you're shame when you acknowledge them, but you don't have it become your identity, it leads to a humility, doesn't it?
::Joel Sinclair
Because sure, use it.
::Pat McCalla
as a dad, your kids have probably seen you fail before,
::Joel Sinclair
right? Sure,
::Pat McCalla
Your kids have seen you when you told them like, hey, don't lose your temper, but they've seen you lose
::Joel Sinclair
You sure?
::Pat McCalla
right?
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. So
::Pat McCalla
how do you how do you deal with that? Well, if it's not your identity,
::Pat McCalla
there's a humility in being able to say, like, hey, I know that I just told you not to to
::Joel Sinclair
pass this way
::Pat McCalla
yesterday, and you just saw daddy act like this, and I apologize
::Pat McCalla
and you're going to see me
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah, from that. Right.
::Joel Sinclair
I think that's part of.
::Joel Sinclair
Your question when you talk about what to what does manhood look like? I think that's part of manhood sitting down. And I try to do this with my kids. When I, when I get angry because I've struggled with anger before, and you mentioned it. My dad, his dad, I've struggled with anger. And it's something I'm, you know, I continually want to get better at.
::Joel Sinclair
It'd be great if I never got angry again in my life. That's probably not going to happen.
::Joel Sinclair
But, you know, that's.
::Joel Sinclair
The goal kind of thing. But
::Joel Sinclair
exactly what you're saying when I do, I want to sit down with my kids and say, look, this is not the way we're supposed to do it, I messed up, please forgive me. You know, those kind of things we doing that shows.
::Joel Sinclair
Lessons your kids.
::Joel Sinclair
Learned, right? Doing that shows the humility you're talking about. But it also
::Joel Sinclair
allows them to see us live out our faith. And that's one of the biggest keys to getting our kids to to develop their own relationship with Christ, you know, to accept him and really grow into that is seeing us model that. Yeah, yeah. The notion that I'm the parent, I never do wrong, even when you know you're 15 and you can see me being a complete hypocrite.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. They're not they're not here in our words. They're seeing our actions. When when I mess up, I need to sit down and I need to own that,
::Joel Sinclair
acknowledge it and say, guys, I'm sorry. Yeah.
::Joel Sinclair
What you said, right? Because
::Pat McCalla
you're acknowledging it, but it's not your identity.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
And then you're in, you're, you're subtly like a six year old isn't going to understand the depth of
::Joel Sinclair
Right.
::Pat McCalla
understand that
::Joel Sinclair
is.
::Pat McCalla
But they're starting to learn it from you and how you model that,
::Joel Sinclair
Sure. Yeah.
::Joel Sinclair
And it teaches them because some of my kids that namely the boys are like, they they really dig in and they don't want to acknowledge they did something or I didn't do it. You know, they're they're five and seven and like, I'm showing them how to do that.
::Pat McCalla
five and seven year olds are different than any other
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah I sometimes I wonder like.
::Joel Sinclair
It's a is it anybody.
::Joel Sinclair
Else's kids. Yeah they're all the same. And that's what one.
::Joel Sinclair
Of the things, you know, we were talking about earlier,
::Joel Sinclair
evaluating situations or whatever, teach me sometimes with our seven year old, he gets so, so angry. We have to just put him in his room.
::Joel Sinclair
he can't hear what I'm saying when I'm trying to talk, the he just needs some calm. And, you know, ten minutes later, he calms down and then we can have a conversation with him and walk through that with him, you know?
::Joel Sinclair
But again, sitting down and owning when we mess up, I think is a huge lesson for them.
::Pat McCalla
You know, I know this isn't this this isn't a parenting podcast,
::Joel Sinclair
right?
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
But
::Pat McCalla
think it's it's interesting how sometimes we expect kids to act more like adults, and we even have expectations on ourselves because, it's really wise what you're saying that you do with yourself.
::Pat McCalla
I need that sometimes. It was just in the last couple of weeks
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
where I was upset and angry, and my wife came and said something. I just said, I just need a little bit of time for I can talk
::Joel Sinclair
about.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
So I'm a 53
::Joel Sinclair
year old and needed to go sit in my room.
::Joel Sinclair
I do it too. I totally get to.
::Joel Sinclair
Just
::Pat McCalla
get in.
::Pat McCalla
But that's there's some wisdom in that.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
wisdom in helping your son
::Joel Sinclair
understand
::Pat McCalla
that someday, hopefully, he'll model that when he's 25, 26, 30 in a relationship and he'll be like, hey, I'm angry right now. I just and he's learned this
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. What
::Pat McCalla
you did with him as a
::Joel Sinclair
need to step back before I say or do something.
::Pat McCalla
Yeah,
::Joel Sinclair
and.
::Joel Sinclair
I think that. Yeah.
::Joel Sinclair
And that's that's mature too because virtually everyone I know we all have our breaking point. Right. And that's there's nothing wrong with stepping back and saying, yeah, I need to reassess.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. You know, it's kind of like,
::Joel Sinclair
the questions our kids get. You know, sometimes we want to pretend like we have all the answers. There's a maturity with stepping back and say, you know what, let's look into that because I don't know. Rather than giving them a bad answer. Yes. Yeah. That sort of thing.
::Pat McCalla
Yeah. And that's what I meant before when I was talking about the freedom. That's humility. It's the humility
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. I don't
::Pat McCalla
have all the answers. It's the humility of saying, I don't have it all together. I'm going to I'm going to try to teach you what it means to be a man or a wife,
::Joel Sinclair
yeah, try to
::Pat McCalla
teach you what it means to be a woman, but we're not going to do it perfectly.
::Pat McCalla
And when we don't do it perfectly, we have the freedom, because it's not our identity, that brokenness. We have the freedom then to say like, hey,
::Pat McCalla
I didn't respond in
::Joel Sinclair
the way, yeah,
::Pat McCalla
have, I must I'm sorry.
::Joel Sinclair
Sure.
::Pat McCalla
And there's they will learn probably more from those situations than they will when we when we actually do it really well.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah,
::Joel Sinclair
probably. I just I think those are going to be to your point, the ones that probably really stick with them.
::Pat McCalla
So what are some cultural lies that, that that you hear about manhood today? I know I, we touch on a lot of them. But as we're starting to wrap things up, did we miss anything.
::Joel Sinclair
I think one of the, the, the biggest lies out there that men can buy into is that you don't matter. And when I say that again, not a weepy sense of poor pitiful me, but, I was looking at some of the data know before, I came here today, and the Census Bureau found that nearly 1 in 4 children are going to grow up in a home without some type of father figure, not a biological father, not a stepfather.
::Joel Sinclair
You know, something like that. One of the biggest lies you can fall for. And I truly think this is a lie from the devil, is that it won't matter to your family. That is absolute lutely not true. I've got a page full of data on the impacts, of fatherless homes on their children, you know, drug addiction, criminal activity, teen pregnancy, you know, just it goes on and on.
::Joel Sinclair
You matter in your absence, you walking out for whatever reason, is going to have a negative impact on your family. So it's not just the lie that you don't that dad doesn't matter, but that you're not going. They'll be better off. You're not actually going to harm your family. Yes you are. You're harming your family. If you do that.
::Joel Sinclair
I think another one that that, men really need to take a stand on is, the transgender issue. I just think that's a at the heart of that is a denial of God's created order and the psychological abuse being done to children. Because we don't want to simply say, here's the data on this. Maybe you are genuinely struggling with your body and your mind.
::Joel Sinclair
The, the, the the nature there. But we're going to walk through that with you. And the overwhelming majority of the time, you're going to come out of that after adolescence.
::Joel Sinclair
in, in harmony with your mind and your body kind of thing, just this
::Joel Sinclair
idea that we're going to let children make life altering choices.
::Joel Sinclair
I mean, that's what I was talking about earlier for this, a great example. There comes a point when we've got to put our foot down and say, as men, we are not going to tolerate this. You see, a lot of moms
::Joel Sinclair
going to war over that, and I applaud them, but they should not be doing that by themselves.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah, we we are the, the the spiritual leaders of our home, you know. And to me, that's one of the examples I like of our biblical role to safeguard and protect our families and our communities. And it does look like, you know, we're starting to gain ground on that as far as, you know, rejecting that. But that's another prime example of what's going on.
::Pat McCalla
how you defined how to how to deal with that though, because I do think that you given enough time, I mean, maybe we'll be dead by then, but eventually if Jesus doesn't come back first,
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah,
::Pat McCalla
history is going to look back on this time period and say, this was child abuse,
::Joel Sinclair
right?
::Joel Sinclair
Absolutely.
::Pat McCalla
you won't
::Joel Sinclair
Yes.
::Pat McCalla
decide what they're gonna eat for dinner, and you'll let them
::Joel Sinclair
decide the
::Pat McCalla
sexual identity.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Joel Sinclair
And it's going.
::Joel Sinclair
To be
::Pat McCalla
crazy, but
::Pat McCalla
the way you just described modeling how to walk with, Because it's not to say that kids aren't going to struggle with that. And more so now than maybe ever because of the society we have. But you you had again, such a humility in saying like, okay, I understand that you're struggling with this.
::Pat McCalla
Let me walk you through this. Let's, let's talk through this.
::Joel Sinclair
Let's
::Pat McCalla
let's go. And you said when they come out of adolescence, like it may be years for them to, to figure out how to walk through that, but to walk with them in that and not just go, okay,
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. Go get the surgery.
::Joel Sinclair
Right.
::Joel Sinclair
And that's not the only example. The issue with phones and social media and stuff like that. I mean, being man enough to take the darts and the nasty words that are our kids are going to to hurl at us when we tell them no on certain things like that, that that's part of being a man. Yeah. You're the worst parent ever.
::Joel Sinclair
I hate you. Yeah. No one wants to hear that. As a parent. I get that. But being the adult in the room and being willing to take that and say, I understand that you're unhappy and you disagree with this, but this is one of those times where I know what's best for you. You're not getting on social media as a 13 year old.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. You know, those kind of that's part of being a man.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah,
::Pat McCalla
man. Joel, we could go on
::Joel Sinclair
on it.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah, absolutely.
::Joel Sinclair
Long
::Pat McCalla
time.
::Pat McCalla
One thing I would love as we wrap this up.
::Host
As we're wrapping up this episode. Be sure to leave us a five star review. And if you're watching on YouTube, leave a comment on something you'll take away. All right, let's hop back into the remainder of the episode.
::Pat McCalla
I love what you're doing. So
::Joel Sinclair
thank you for what
::Pat McCalla
you're doing. I want to give you an opportunity moment to to let our audience know about your podcasts and how they can connect with you.
::Pat McCalla
I think it would be really cool if you developed at some point, because that's a phrase. It's that there's heard a lot man up
::Joel Sinclair
and
::Pat McCalla
you already started doing it here, but maybe it's just a whole list of bullet points on what that would
::Joel Sinclair
mean.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah, that's a good idea.
::Joel Sinclair
Because
::Pat McCalla
what you just described there about manning up as a husband and a father and a home is sometimes making the hard calls,
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
having your kids mad at you because you did some.
::Pat McCalla
That's what it means
::Joel Sinclair
If your kids are never mad at you, you're not doing. You're not doing it right. And I don't say that because it brings me pleasure. Yeah, but, you know, if you're if your kids never mad at you, you're not parenting.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah,
::Pat McCalla
exactly. And that's part of. That's the healthy side
::Joel Sinclair
right?
::Pat McCalla
man up. So,
::Pat McCalla
How would people get Ahold of you?
::Joel Sinclair
Our website.
::Joel Sinclair
Is, currently undergoing some some reconstruction.
::Joel Sinclair
But we've got, the E3 underground podcast is, one of the resources from our ministry that's on iTunes. Spotify. You know, all those places. You can email me at, 104 Ministries info
::Joel Sinclair
at gmail. One.
::Pat McCalla
Hundred and four Ministry. Is that the numbers?
::Joel Sinclair
the ministry is ten for ministries. But.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I take that.
::Joel Sinclair
From, you know, my military background, ten four is.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. Well and just.
::Joel Sinclair
A my idea of that is, understand. Understood. I'm going to do it kind of thing. And I couple that with Ezra ten four, which again, the Joel Sinclair translation is if you read that is basically you've been told what to do. It's your responsibility. Get up and go do it.
::Joel Sinclair
So I.
::Joel Sinclair
Couple that I'm so glad because.
::Pat McCalla
I'd worked security back
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah
::Pat McCalla
early 20s for a while. So of course you're doing the radio ten
::Joel Sinclair
jumps.
::Pat McCalla
right? And so when you hear something or when you're given an order and you say ten for
::Joel Sinclair
Solid.
::Joel Sinclair
Copy, I read you.
::Joel Sinclair
Understood.
::Joel Sinclair
I'm going to do it.
::Joel Sinclair
Right.
::Joel Sinclair
So,
::Joel Sinclair
Ten four ministries.org. Okay. Is our website again. It doesn't look very pretty right now. I've got somebody working on it, but, the podcast, you can always reach out to me through an Instagram, ten, four ministries on Instagram. You can follow us there.
::Joel Sinclair
I do want to throw something out real quick because we've had,
::Joel Sinclair
some good conversations.
::Joel Sinclair
I am by no means a parenting expert. I'm not a counselor or anything like that. I'm just, my goal is to equip men. Both, husband. Whether you're a husband, a father, a young man. My goal is to use biblical principle to equip men to be, to live out our biblical role. And I do that a lot through engaging cultural issues and how those actually point us back to the.
::Joel Sinclair
But we see the truth in the world through the cultural issues we're going into. How can we respond to cultural lies? How can we be the leaders in our homes? We're supposed to be?
::Pat McCalla
appreciate your humility and saying that, if anybody were sitting across the table from me and they did say that they were a parenting expert, I would probably laugh at
::Joel Sinclair
them. Yeah,
::Pat McCalla
because
::Pat McCalla
I thought I was an expert at parenting toddlers. Until I had toddlers. I was an expert
::Joel Sinclair
in
::Pat McCalla
elementary kids until I had
::Joel Sinclair
I am
::Pat McCalla
I was a, expert at parenting teenagers until I had teenagers. I was an expert at parenting adult children until I had adult children. Then you find out it's like there's no such thing as an expert.
::Joel Sinclair
right?
::Joel Sinclair
We're all friends. There's a lot of OJT. Yeah.
::Joel Sinclair
On the job training.
::Joel Sinclair
Yes,
::Pat McCalla
exactly,
::Pat McCalla
Well, Joel, man, thank you so much for
::Joel Sinclair
being.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. Thank you for having me.
::Pat McCalla
to reach out to you.
::Pat McCalla
I
::Joel Sinclair
It's a.
::Joel Sinclair
Lot of fun.
::Pat McCalla
important message. So the fun part of our podcast and see if you can stop me.
::Joel Sinclair
Okay.
::Joel Sinclair
It's
::Pat McCalla
ironic. I'm going to ask you to lie to me on a podcast called No Gray Areas,
::Joel Sinclair
Okay? You're gonna
::Pat McCalla
give me three statements. I got to try to guess the lie.
::Joel Sinclair
Okay? It's one line.
::Joel Sinclair
Okay.
::Joel Sinclair
While in the Marine Corps, I visited all seven, continents.
::Pat McCalla
Okay.
::Joel Sinclair
I've hiked the Grand Canyon rim to rim.
::Joel Sinclair
I did, Boy Scouts growing up, and I achieved the eagle rank.
::Pat McCalla
know, if our listeners don't know, my son did it. He did. Eagle Scout, too.
::Joel Sinclair
Who did? He? Cool.
::Joel Sinclair
That's all good for him.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah,
::Pat McCalla
That's a lot of work. Tenacity that takes
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Joel Sinclair
Commitment and dedication.
::Joel Sinclair
And,
::Pat McCalla
yep. There's a tiny percentage of Boy Scouts that actually
::Joel Sinclair
achieve.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. It's very.
::Joel Sinclair
Small.
::Pat McCalla
So I'm going to say that once.
::Pat McCalla
True
::Pat McCalla
that that that you were an Eagle Scout,
::Joel Sinclair
ut okay. That's true. I got a: ::Joel Sinclair
Confident.
::Pat McCalla
I'm going to say you hiked the Grand Canyon from room to room. That
::Joel Sinclair
I did do that, with a group. Yeah, I, I've actually been to, to six continent. That's when I. Yeah.
::Joel Sinclair
When you haven't been to.
::Joel Sinclair
Not not on my list either.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah, I moved.
::Joel Sinclair
I moved to Phoenix for.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. Where are you.
::Joel Sinclair
From?
::Joel Sinclair
I grew up in the Midwest.
::Pat McCalla
Okay.
::Joel Sinclair
remember we moved out here in: ::Joel Sinclair
Was for winters better down here in.
::Joel Sinclair
Phoenix. Yeah, I do, I wish they were like that all year round. Honestly. Yeah. I could do without.
::Joel Sinclair
The summers here.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah, they're they're rough. But.
::Pat McCalla
you don't have. So you've been to where you at six continents
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. You visited six continents. Yes. But an hour ago there's not a huge Marine Corps.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah.
::Joel Sinclair
There's not. Which is surprising because they like to send us to some really crappy places.
::Joel Sinclair
To live in.
::Joel Sinclair
An Arctic just to make life miserable. Yeah, yeah.
::Pat McCalla
Well, hey, Joel, thank you so
::Joel Sinclair
much. Yeah.
::Joel Sinclair
Really
::Pat McCalla
appreciate you, my friend.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah. Thank you, I enjoyed it.
::Joel Sinclair
Thanks for the invite, man.
::Joel Sinclair
Yeah,
::Host
Thanks for tuning in with Joel Sinclair. Remember, as men, we're called to lead with resilience, honesty, and the purpose. Don't forget to like, share and subscribe for more empowering conversations every other Wednesday. See you next time.
