Why 99% of People Misunderstand Addiction from a Neuroscience Expert | Ep. 117 with Dr. Robb Kelly
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What if it’s “Not a Drinking Problem, It’s a Thinking Problem”? Today on the No Grey Areas Podcast we invite on Dr. Robb Kelly, world-renowned addiction expert, to discuss how he went from homeless and hopeless to helping thousands break free from addiction. With over two decades of experience helping addicts, a PhD in psychology, and his own journey of recovery, he brings a powerful, threefold perspective to fighting addiction. According to his website, “Some people have referred to him as The Gordon Ramsay of the Addiction World because of his direct, no-nonsense, and candid approach to recovery.”
In this episode, he gets raw & real about the moment his 3-year-old begged him to stop drinking, why trauma is the root of it all, and how 9D breathwork is helping people heal in ways traditional therapy never could. From working with celebrities to speaking alongside health leaders like Gary Brecka, Dr. Kelly reveals how trauma rewires the brain… and how we can rewire it back.
Give this episode a watch or a listen if you’ve ever struggled with addiction, shame, or feeling stuck, this conversation might just be the message you needed to hear. Be sure to follow Dr. Kelly on Instagram @addiction_doctor and DM him to grab your free copy of “Daddy, Daddy Please Stop Drinking.”
No Grey Areas is a motivational podcast with captivating guests centered around how our choices humanize, empower, and define who we become. This podcast is inspired by the cautionary tale, No Grey Areas, written by Joseph Gagliano. Learn more about the truth behind his story involved with sports' biggest scandal at https://www.nogreyareas.com/
Transcript
Host
Today on the No Gray Areas podcast, we welcome doctor Rob Kelly, renowned addiction expert, author and speaker who's helped thousands break free from addiction is no nonsense. Approach to recovery will challenge everything you thought you knew. The way you look at your life, not be the same after hearing this. Please be advised if you're around your kiddos, this episode does contain some mature content.
::Host
Plus stay tuned! Doctor Rob announces an exciting book giveaway toward the end of our conversation. Let's get started.
::Pat McCalla
Doctor. Rob Kelly, thank you so much for being on the Nokia Areas podcast. We are honored, honored, honored to have you. And I've been looking through your stuff. And I can guarantee your audience and myself that we are going to learn so much from you today. So let me just jump right in and ask you, I'm we're going to jump into the deep end of the pool here.
::Pat McCalla
I'm going to ask you this question is
::Pat McCalla
set you up for, I think, the rest of our interview. What was your rock bottom moment, what we might call the worst day of your life. What was that?
::Pat McCalla
and how did that lead you into what you're doing today?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
It predates the whole Mr.. But that's how it started.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
My wife left with the children. I got back next day. Two years of drinking. Sorry, two days drinking. Oh. Diapers. Change. Nothing. Please kick their door down. And the authorities went out of peace, whether she was their mother in law. So that's one people that I stumbled up.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
They got the paper and I could see the place. And taking the kids, three year old went to mom, one year old went to grandma, and she's walking down the path, my eldest holding on to my, hand. And I was just filled with guilt and shame and remorse and yeah, it was just out that guilt feeling.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And she said three things to me. My three year old said, daddy, daddy, please don't go. And further on down the path that she's holding. Mommy. She turned around again and said, daddy, daddy, please get better. And as they got to the wrought iron gate, she opened the gate and she said, daddy, daddy, please stop drinking.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And that was the worst day of my life
::Pat McCalla
old was she?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Wonderful. At three, three years old, Charlie?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yeah. And that, I ripped my heart out and changed me as a human being. And then, you know, 2 or 3 years after that, I'm homeless. I've lost everything.
::Pat McCalla
Wow. So you lose everything? You end up homeless. How long were you homeless?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
14 months in total. Yeah. It was, Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
doctor Rob, we'll get into how that led you into your your moment or your big. Why, why you do what you do today?
::Pat McCalla
But you spoke about how divine intervention played a role in your recovery. Tell us about that a little bit.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
So I've been on the streets for 14 months. I die twice on the streets. I've tried seven times to kill myself to it. What? I've been beaten. I've been bashed. I was a bodybuilder and fighter when I first walked on the streets. But as a drunk, more alcohol and I screwed. It got worse and worse. And then one morning, I dropped down to my hands and knees in the middle of nowhere because factories and and, offices there.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And I started to cry from my stomach like a baby, and I was I was crying, now, because I'd lost my children or, you know, wife or anything. I was crying because the first time in my life I realized I couldn't stop drinking.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I remember looking up to the sky as an atheist. I was molested by my priest.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
It there's a god. It. Now, I can't do this on my own anymore. And 30s later, a guy what I'm calling his name was Derek. Miss his last Bible study. Mr.. Last boss home. He came upon me on a shortcut he'd never taken before. I met a guy called John after. Which is mind blowing. One tell that story for 20 years.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
But that's really where my life changed. Is when he told me he'd come back to the house. You can. You can pay them in recovery. I'm a Christian, right? That that that moment is where I'm at. This reason why I'm here today.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Crazy, crazy stuff happened.
::Pat McCalla
So
::Pat McCalla
You're looking up into the sky. You're kind of hitting rock bottom again. In a sense.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
at that point in your life, you're an atheist because you had been molested by a priest, and you don't want to. It's. You're just you come to the point where you're saying there can't be a god, but at this moment you're looking up, saying, if there is a God, I need help.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
that moment, someone walks around the corner with the Bible and saying.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yes, I it gets pretty clear in that part,
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I tell you. So you go into at home and and the next day I get up, have shaved for the first time in a year. And he said, Robert, let me tell you something. You can stay in for as long as you like. Let's get you back on your feet.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
You've got to come to a meeting. So, Derek, I like the AA meetings. Well, you have to come, Rob. I can have you in the house when I'm coming. So I went the next day during the meeting, which I thought was boring. This guy said, my name is John and I'm a recovering alcoholic. And I looked at Derek and said, what did he just say?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
He said, he's a recovered alcoholic. I'm intrigued by that. So after the meeting, I called him. I said, hey John, my name is Robert. You sponsor me. And he said, no, but I will be your spiritual advisor for a period of 12 weeks. So every Wednesday I'd leave Derek sakes. I got a big part, kind of an addiction in my hand.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And I walked to his house for seven. I could walk in before seven. I had to wait downstairs to one minute to where I went upstairs. And 8:00, no matter what would you do? You want me to get that for 12 weeks? Pass. And he told me everything that's happened right now. He told me from the next day on my last visit, my life will change.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And I said, you know, I love you to bits, John, but I'm living in Derek's basement on a block mattress. Nobody knows I'm here. So the next day, Derek comes home early from work. Today, the guy sweeps the floor in factories. Just resigned. Do you want a part time job? So, yeah, of course, that week, just because my personality turned into a full time job.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
So two weeks later, I get my first pay thing, which was cash stapled to an envelope. Back in the day, I remember what John said about my life getting better. So I went to the gas station about John, a little teddy bear and a card, and I wrote on the card, John, thank you for introducing me to God because he took the compulsion to drink away, and I'm so excited to get around there and show him that everything he said is coming true.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I got his mail teddy pad much and again got to the door knocking on this apartment door. There's no answer that one. I this is about 7:00 at night. The woman come out from the right hand and she says, hey, can I help you? I said, yeah, let's let's jump. You still live here? Said John. Who said, John, your neighbor.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
So she went, I've only been here a couple of months. I've never seen anybody there. So it goes down to the left and bangs on the door a little bit harder. Guy comes thinking, what do you want? So why is John relocated to John who? I said, John, your neighbor from with you guys. He went on to tell me that that apartment was derelict.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And if you did these b tape over, if you did walking, you'd fall down 2 or 3 flights and probably kill yourself. So I'm thinking, these guys are crazy. So I go back to the meeting the next day hoping that somebody will recognize me. So, you know, I find my story so I goes in the chairman. Rob, good to see you like that.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
God for that not going crazy. Thank you to
::Dr. Robb Kelly
let me still come here. And he said, John who? And I said, the guy I'm over to the coffee machine, ask him to be my sponsor. He said, well, we thought you were praying you overnight accomplish in speaking to yourself. We've never found out the
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I. When I started to get wealthy, I put the best private detective agency in Manchester and they could never find him.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
But everything he said has come true. We have a 98% success rate. We're the only company in the world to offer a money back guarantee. If you relapse or get depressed again, you know all this stuff because most of what he's taught me and and he told me to go out and tell everybody that God told him that you can have a guaranteed recovery.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
You can 100% recover. Guaranteed. And so I did. And, yeah,
::Dr. Robb Kelly
that was a crazy job story.
::Pat McCalla
Rob.
::Pat McCalla
I like you. I just got goosebumps hearing that story.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Right
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Oh, tell that for 15, 20 years. Don't have no turn that I said no, I believe me. Yeah, but when I did though everyone's going oh my God, I had a similar story. No way. Yeah. It's been amazing.
::Pat McCalla
God is amazing, isn't he?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yes.
::Pat McCalla
That's amazing.
::Pat McCalla
first of all, let me connect with our audience for just a moment because they're hearing your story now, and there's a lot of them that may be driving, or they're listening to this or taking a walk or something, and they may be going, well, this isn't going to apply to me so much because, I don't struggle with alcohol.
::Pat McCalla
And so I just want to set it. And I'm assuming you would agree with me on this.
::Pat McCalla
I remember years ago I've said this several times on our podcast. I was standing there with a guy and we were talking about addictions, and he goes, I don't understand how people can get addicted to something. And I didn't say it to him at the time, but if I could go back, I would say, what are you talking about?
::Pat McCalla
We all struggle with addiction. It may not be chemical addictions, but we all have something in our life that's wreaking havoc in our life, and we know it and we keep doing it. Would you agree with that?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
100%. I know like
::Dr. Robb Kelly
20 years ago, 95% of I work with addiction now, 5% is addiction. And everything else is childhood trauma. Entrepreneurs want to better themselves. Because we found out that with the neuroscience that we that we learned about, we found out that it doesn't make any difference if you're addiction or not. The mind works the same.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Whether you want to better yourself or know that the treatment is is kind of similar. So
::Dr. Robb Kelly
everybody's as an addiction, okay. And everybody knows somebody who suffers from alcoholism or addiction. And if you don't it's probably you. It's one of our biggest sayings because we find that to be true.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Now how do I know that everywhere I go, especially in Starbucks, you know, can I have a small secret?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Oh my God, you English? Oh, yeah. Yeah. What you from? You know, what did you do? Oh. My sister. Oh my brother. Oh, my. Everybody knows somebody
::Dr. Robb Kelly
who suffers from some kind of addiction. Like you said, plants. Not all substance. But, you know, if you're going to the gym every day,
::Dr. Robb Kelly
no matter what happens in an epoch, a family holiday away in the first thing when you land, you're looking for a nearest gym.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
You have a problem that
::Dr. Robb Kelly
you can't spend time with your family. It's all about balance. Life's about balance. That.
::Pat McCalla
So did it take you a couple of runs at that, that hill. I mean most people that are struggling with especially chemical addictions. But I would say again any addiction that we have in our life,
::Pat McCalla
some
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yeah, yeah.
::Pat McCalla
But
::Pat McCalla
takes them a couple of runs at the hill to, to, to to deal with it.
::Pat McCalla
Was that your story or is yours a little different?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
: ::Dr. Robb Kelly
I got maybe like 15 minutes, but, yeah, I'm not a big believer in oh my God, he's relapse. Oh my God.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Stop my shit. You know, you relapse. You stop focusing and doing what you supposed to do. 30 minutes. Get back on. You're not lost. Validate. You have you're not lost anything apart from you know, there's too many judges in the talks that we're in right now.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And in general, you want to tell you what to do when they want to comment negatively and, you know they can do what they want to do. Because for the first time in my life, over the last two years, I don't give a shit what you think about me. And people say that, but it's human behavior. If someone comments negatively, it's going to hurt you.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And you know, I don't bother what he says, but you are.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I mean, you really, because you take that from the child and trauma and it cuts like a knife. But what I found, based on my 63 years of being on this earth, is nobody will comment negatively or say anything negative. That's true. And as good as you or better in life, it's always the guys that are not, you know, oh, who do you think you are?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Go Google that guy. He's probably in his mom's basement and with his fourth marriage weighing 300 pounds, telling me that I've got it wrong, he's like, really? So he has God, look at the source.
::Pat McCalla
Such a great point. And I think it's. I think you make a great point for the audience and for myself. If if you're constantly pointing fingers at other people, you should. It probably is an indicator of where you might be at in life and should be a big red flag. Right. That's that's one thing that you're saying, because if you're in recovery and you're you're overcoming things and of course you sometimes will have bad moments.
::Pat McCalla
you're not so ready to point your finger at someone else.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
That's it.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
that's the rule of life. I think common rules are life. You can do anything you want to do, and you can make anything as long as you know how it works, how the mind works. And secondly, really, nobody cares. We think they do. You know, we walk into a room and the door closes, everyone turns round, and then someone starts to laugh and giggle.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I think it's about me. Nobody cares, you know? Nobody's coming for you
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Nobody's going to knock on the door and give you that million dollar check. Nobody's doing it. Nobody gives a shit, Rob. And the quicker you understand that, the quicker you get on with your life,
::Pat McCalla
I think you did some background investigation on me because you. I just want you to know, you were talking about a notorious people pleaser.
::Pat McCalla
I am working so hard to move away from that. But
::Pat McCalla
my early decades of life. Oh, you you nailed it. I think most of us as humans struggle with. But some people like myself even more so.
::Pat McCalla
And you're right, when I step back and think about it, the reality is, most people I don't even cross their mind.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
you how we think we do. You know why did I learn everything I say to? Then? Do which child? Researchers were the leading authority on the neuroscience, the deep breath work. And, you know, about 900,000 people. So I have a pedigree that says this is right, you know, with the neuroscience that we use. But, you know, I want to think it's all about me.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I said, I said to a guy once in an army and after about six months, I bumped into him and I said, you know something, Billy? You said this, this, this to me. And I've carried a resentment for six months and I relapsed three times on it. What do you got said by Billy? Do you know he said he said I never felt a thing.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And I learned from that lesson is nobody cares really,
::Dr. Robb Kelly
alcoholics, addicts. This is what we concentrate on. Childhood trauma, depression, PTSD, alcoholism, addiction, which is slightly different. Alzheimer's and onset dementia is whatever you research into that, you know, it's like
::Dr. Robb Kelly
nobody cares, you know, and you got to make shit up and for yourself and again, which will get into once you realize what's going on here from the minute you wake up, you can control this.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
You can 100% at $1 million. If you think money is going to solve everything, it doesn't. Or you can get your kids back, or you can get a manager. Anything you want to be. I'm telling you right now, with the energy, with the vibration, with the mindset and the subconscious mind and the conscious mind is 100% true.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I mean, how can you offer the money back guarantee somebody come said, I want to win $1 million next year in business.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I'm at about 300,000 now and I guarantee you're going to do it. Actual fact I'll give you the 700,000 if you don't make it. How can I do that? It's because you know how this works and it's impossible if you're fully in
::Dr. Robb Kelly
to fail. I mean, it really is. What is he talking? Google me. Go, go.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Okay.
::Pat McCalla
know, and I wonder, because a lot of our listeners just listen, on audio.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
want them to know that you're pointing at your head when you keep talking about, like, what this does.
::Pat McCalla
So I want to get into the neuroscience in just a moment, but let me just before we do that, based on what you just talked about, especially, you know, taking a couple of runs at the mount, not caring about what people say, but you you have a quote, and I may mess up the quote a little bit, but you say
::Pat McCalla
alcoholism doesn't kill you, but shame.
::Pat McCalla
Well, shame has a massive impact in our thinking, doesn't it?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
It really does. And, you know, counter trauma is the gateway drug. So it's all tied to that. The guilt and shame, remorse that we all go through goes right back to what we were taught as a child or the abused. And most people who suffer from childhood, abuse. Didn't know it was abuse then. Probably don't know where it is now, but it was, so yeah, definitely.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And the other than the one I have really big out there is it's not a I never had a drinking problem. I think in problem
::Dr. Robb Kelly
when you realize your identity stepping away from addiction, from depression, from PTSD, once you find your identity, it is a game changer. But the guilt, the remorse, the shame will kill you. Man. It really well.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
You got to remember guys that the fan, the shame and the resentments is not ours to carry. You need to get rid of that straight. Do you do your childhood trauma work and get rid of it? Find your identity. The
::Dr. Robb Kelly
world is open to you, man. I got my kids back after 30 years.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
30 years. I got a message in the middle of night from my daughter Charlie, who were taken off of me ages one and three, and she said, dad, I want to see you, blah, blah, blah.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And this is where everything turns around to God. Thanks, Carrie. So I'm looking at this text 3:00 in the morning. After 30 years, I'm squinting and it's Charlotte Charlie in the corner. I wait, my wife, I'm crying, I'm laughing. She wants to see me. Now. We have people around us, that do stuff. So within four hours, five hours, we're not put on a private jet.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
We're going out to England, I guess. Then the next day I'm crying. I'm scared. And she opens the door. We fall into each other arms. She held my hand and she walked me into a living room. Guys. And she handed me my three month old granddaughter. Don't you dare tell me there isn't a God. That girl right now is my lead therapist in my Manchester office, guys.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And four months ago, my youngest daughter got in contact with me. Because I know for one thing that when I get to heaven, you know what? God's not going to ask me. Wow, how big was that? $10 million. How she how how big what? And caused him stupid. What? He's going to ask me one thing. How many people did you save?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Rob? And I want to big number God and God will
::Dr. Robb Kelly
give me this stuff that you can't even frickin dream of happening to you. And he gave. They are like it was nothing. It just gives it to you, man.
::Pat McCalla
I can't even smile big enough after that story. What an amazing story.
::Pat McCalla
And I don't want our listeners to miss what you said. You said, it's not a, it's not a drinking problem. It's a thinking problem.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yeah. Do you remember? The alcohol has 1% to do with alcoholism and the same with every other addiction.
::Pat McCalla
Okay.
::Pat McCalla
so important for us to hear if someone's struggling with pornography addiction.
::Pat McCalla
You're saying it's 1% to pornography.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yes.
::Pat McCalla
alcohol, it's 1% alcohol. If
::Pat McCalla
it's a drug, it's 1% to drug. If it's anger and bitterness, it's 1% anger. Bitterness. Okay. Unpack that for us.
::Host
we hope you've enjoyed this episode so far. Be sure to like and subscribe to not miss a future podcast! Okay, let's get back to the episode.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
alcohol it is. Alcoholics are born. Drug addicts are made trying to put that out. Listeners, please, I love parties. Amazing guy. Don't throw this away on the phone and, like, listen carefully said in neuroscience behind it, alcoholics are born with a predisposition. I have an allergy. I'm allergic to the ethanol, the alcohol, the basal ganglia, the hypothalamus and the amygdala.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I different in alcoholics than they are in genetics. Drug addiction is the addictive personality. How do we know that while 95% of people that come to us with a heroin and cocaine addiction started in the doctor's office,
::Dr. Robb Kelly
so you can't drink yourself into becoming an alcoholic, it doesn't work like that just because the doctor says you are or you have, ten DUIs
::Dr. Robb Kelly
now, you got to be born into it.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And we proven this for not only with the neuroscience, but with the neural pathways we connected that we think and believe from our to research that every single neuropathy in the head to wealth, to health, to success is already there. The problem with most people with childhood trauma is this is the neural pathway to wealth. I say the thought patterns keep missing because the childhood trauma we keep almost, almost I don't we don't think we're good enough.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Once you connect them, it happens. God's introduced and it never can be unbroken.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
information. What we found was key. What you believe alcoholism is Johnny around the corner. He drinks every day. He's an alcoholic. Oh, no, no, no, that's not. I know people have drank more than me. I'm more than me and went alcoholics.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
They could come out the other side. So the actual neuroscience behind addiction, PTSD, depression all says the same thing 100%. You can recover so you can recover from everything, including alcoholism.
::Pat McCalla
I jump in really quick and just let me just jump in? Because
::Pat McCalla
you talked about there being a predisposition towards something,
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yes.
::Pat McCalla
said there's a 100% opportunity to not go down that path.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
20%.
::Pat McCalla
may look the it
::Pat McCalla
may almost sound like you're contradicting yourself, but but you're not right.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I mean, if you if you're born into an alcoholic, I know, I know, loads of people were alcoholic from alcoholic families, but they never touched alcohol. That's what I meant by that. Why don't you take the first drink nine out of ten times? If you're an alcoholic, born into an alcoholic family, trace three generations back when done so, any amount of time, unless something happens when you stop in the early stages.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
But once you get past that stage, the hypothalamus changes. All bets are off. You can't stop. Don't care if you can stop drinking alcohol. If you go to the bar. Number one drink, go home. You know, an alcoholic. Even though it's self-diagnosed, you know, you just you can't. We can't do that. It's not. It's more, the neuroscience backs you up behind that with the hypothalamus.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
So the hypothalamus at one part of the brain at is in alcoholics. The hypothalamus is, is a, survival mechanism in the brain. It tells babies we have to eat food, drink water to survive. That's it. It's that strong that it's ingrained into the brain. And you don't have to think about it. So once it goes around the basal ganglia straight into the brain, the hypothalamus drink it at certain points.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
This is new neuroscience, guys. Go Google me. I drink in Korea, as I call it. The hypothalamus turned around to the alcoholic only and tells us if you don't drink alcohol to survive, you will die. So in the survival part, the brain is telling the prefrontal cortex you need to drink alcohol to survive, even. No, we know it's different than kids, than houses, than wives.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
It's fine to go days or weeks without food or water, because the survival part of the brain is telling me to drink alcohol. It doesn't have many drinks.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I say it's any worse or any better? Hell, absolute hell. But it's slightly different. We've got.
::Pat McCalla
So, are you saying there's almost like there's a subconscious, mind that's almost taking over?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yeah. Cavani
::Pat McCalla
Yeah,
::Dr. Robb Kelly
says so. The hypothalamus says, hey, to survive, subconscious parents kept all that shit and that you've not got rid of, and it's all over and every single image and pattern from birth is all that. Well, I can't remember. I can't use the 90 breath. What? Use the brain spots and use the end of it's there.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And when you go. If you can't stay in relationships, if you can't get the job you want, if your life is horrible, if you're even like I was 360 pounds overweight when you're that, it goes straight back to the childhood trauma. That's something happened to you, right? That is affecting you today. But you can't put the two together.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
It takes a professional to put the two together and then this needs to change. But you need to go back, uncover, discover and discard of each trauma that you think or think. No, I've
::Dr. Robb Kelly
been through. I don't have any trauma. Everybody has trauma. Well, I don't come from, you know, high class family. Yeah. When do you see it?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
That. Oh, just some days. It's called abandonment. It's crazy how people don't stop. It already
::Dr. Robb Kelly
you know. Well, no one's perfect childhood trauma wake you up every day. Well, nobody can be happy every day. Says who? I'm challenging that. Who's making these rules? Because I don't like these rules. So I'm going to make my own rules with guys, and you can do the same.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Stop believing, as you got to say. Says who? You can't go to America and be on Oprah. And you can. You can have a show and you can become it says who
::Dr. Robb Kelly
as I know I've got on my side. Who've you got on your side back in that statement now, you just told me
::Pat McCalla
You mentioned three things you said uncover,
::Dr. Robb Kelly
This. So you uncover what?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
The trauma. Yeah. One travel what the trauma is go back using 90 or, you know, grains. But go back to that trauma. Find out what happened, discover what is all about. Nobody's fault. Probably. And then discard of that treatment. Using the trauma treatment that we use,
::Pat McCalla
can I unpack those a little bit. So when you're talking about uncover going back you were saying that a lot of people have this and they don't even recognize they have it. Right.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yes.
::Pat McCalla
kind of shelter. So first of all, before you answer that,
::Pat McCalla
give us an example of, child Trump. Maybe it's yours, or maybe it was someone you've worked with in the past that obviously give us a name, but, how a childhood trauma that that they didn't even recognize is a trauma affected them because I, I agree with you.
::Pat McCalla
I think what happens a lot of times when we're growing up is, is ordinary, is is is an ordinary I know is ordinary for us. Right. Like, we just think like, this is normal,
::Dr. Robb Kelly
yes, yes.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I love that. But I'll give you mine. Just one of those. My mom and dad used to go out drinking every Friday night. They drop us off at their friends, they go drinking, go sleep off Saturday, they pick us up. Sounds good. Good family fun. When my parents can't come up the driveway, they need to take all our clothes off.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And we play what's called and run around naked game. And they would tickle us. You can imagine when I thought that was wrong. So when I go back to school a few years later, I'm. So if you haven't played that when I'm naked, go, what's that one? Oh my God. And it's that's what it is. For years my intimacy suffered with women.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I was a bodybuilder. Like, really? I was semiprofessional. I would never take my top off, never in front of nobody.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
that's the thing that I thought was normal. And the silly things like me and my brothers on the kitchen table, there's alcoholics, addicts, PTSD, depressed people are more sensitive to a trauma than the normal person. Got to get that out of the way.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
So me and my brother. True story. We stood on the kitchen table, probably 8 or 9. My mom comes into the room and she says, in this town, well, you guys get down on that table for your dad gets in, get out, and my brother jumps and I freeze. Why have I frozen alcoholics and addicts had things different or I've heard more of it.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
So I freeze, and that's the difference because I'm more sensitive to anything that goes on around me than my brother and sister are because of the predisposition, because of the early PTSD as a child, which wasn't a thing back then. But we get affected, man, and we don't do anything.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
If you if you ever seen a deer getting hit by a car but survives, it does a few amazing things.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
First of all, it stays on the floor for a couple seconds, then it jumps up. What happens next is a phenomenon. It shakes violently for one, two, three seconds. The reason why it's shaking, it's just got rid of that trauma.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
It doesn't exist anymore. They've dealt with it there and then. They may cross the same road, same
::Dr. Robb Kelly
time tomorrow, get hit by the same car, who knows?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
But here, being stuck together, we don't address our trauma most of the time because we don't know what's that? So what happens is it gets built up that little bit of built up and all of a sudden it all comes out, depending on what you do and how you doing it with me? With alcohol and, life's a mess.
::Pat McCalla
And so, a lot of times, what ends up happening to us, right, is we end up,
::Pat McCalla
creating some kind of coping
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yes. Yeah. It's.
::Pat McCalla
decades, until it doesn't work anymore. And then we're we're left somewhat broken and wondering what in the world is going on right
::Pat McCalla
don't even realize we put these coping mechanisms in place.
::Pat McCalla
So, for example, to get personal with mine and I've shared this before on here, I think I'm learning in the last 5 to 10 years that one of my coping mechanisms was, I'll prove you wrong.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yes.
::Pat McCalla
and it worked really well for decades, which was when I realized how unhealthy that was. That's a very unhealthy way to live life.
::Pat McCalla
It I was kind of lost for some time because I didn't know how to do life without that. That it wasn't that it didn't work for me. It did work for me
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yeah. Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
true of of anybody that's dealing with some kind of childhood trauma
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yeah it does. And a coping mechanism, as we know it could be anything. But we never think it is. You know? And that's the sneaky thing about trauma. It's not a car accident. It's not a divorce with psych problems. People have psych problems. It's a little thing that has a huge effect on you. So if your relationships are going wrong, go back and see what happened.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Get a professional like me, go back and pull apart. Watch. They happen like
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I've never told these before. Please just come to me now. My mom insisted. She used to date as a kids. My mom still insist is the age of 12 and 13 that she paid me naked.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I thought I was normal, you know, we don't know.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
So that's. That's what I'm. Correct. I love I love that.
::Pat McCalla
explain the breathwork. You've mentioned that a couple of times in our interview. I think it's so important for us to understand this. And it's probably something that most of our listeners, including myself, hadn't heard before.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yeah. It's a new software on the market. We're doing research with our signs with it, but, it's a bit like, any the best speech therapy you've ever had in a day? This is mind blowingly on steroids. It can fit. After one session, you have it, you'll be changed completely. You need about 30 sessions before a complete turnaround.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
So it's a mixture you headphones on if I ask them. And it's a mixture of a direct voice, some music in the background and nine subliminal messages entering the brain on different frequencies pertaining to the music is playing or the tone of the voice. The main character speaking. It's absolutely the punk. Sorry. Mind blowing. It's the best piece of software we have ever, ever seen.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And we do it online and we do it in person. And it's just it's phenomenal, man. It just heals. Trauma sends you forward. We've found entrepreneurs in here. We've had movie stars in here. We've had road sweepers in here. All the lives have been changed. That's why we guarantee recovery, because this is the key. And the childhood trauma that we've learned.
::Pat McCalla
what's interesting? And what's fascinating about what you're saying is we had someone on our podcast, I think, a little over a year ago. She's a therapist. And she brought up that this right here. And for our listening audience, I'm pointing to my brain, my head. This is one of the least studied parts of the human body.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
yes.
::Pat McCalla
we are continuing to uncover. There's so much unknown about it. So
::Pat McCalla
what you just said, explaining the nine deep breath work, I think taps into that a little bit like you. You were talking about frequencies.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
to us
::Pat McCalla
you're saying, that these, these nine different phrases that are used are, at different frequencies. Why is that?
::Pat McCalla
What does that have to do with the human brain and recovery?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
the vibration of it, obviously. And the intellect behind that and the and the hitting is about four 25MHz. So have you had a one day if you go to church, guys, why does the price band on first then just singing some Christian song. So you know, it's to set the vibration so that you received a message. When the pastor walks on.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
So two chord songs are the key. If you're if you want to get really deep into this stuff, the neuroscience play two chord songs through the today. So an easy one is a whole lot. Love by lips happen when we get to a song called Two Car Songs, rather than the 3 or 4 that is in every song week.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
We kind of frequently then two, because it's not the third chord is not normally. So we we concentrate on the two and it changes the pattern. Like if you have a pattern about anything, it gets interrupted. That's how we become because pattern is us. You expect this, then test and this. As a musician, you're only getting this and this, then this, and your mind starts to $1 seven.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
You're open to different frequencies that day. Vibration frequency is the key to opening your mind to what else is out there. Now, that all sounds fascinating. Everything I've said, the problem is it's all new neuroscience. Only us a study because there's no pointing to the prefrontal cortex. Guys, there's no money in this. You can't get on a prescription.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Pharmaceutical companies don't want to know. You can't get into treatment. They don't want to know you. And the doctor is baffled with all this shit. So what does he know?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
So you got to understand that we've been we spent ten years studying in this of the brain.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
again, it's once you understand and you understand why you're on this earth.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Because years ago, I my biggest saying is you can be anybody you want to be. The biggest things that Americans used to say to me when I first come over, I can't be present in the United States. They always said that I don't. I'm not into politics. So forget your political views for a second. We had a frickin businessman running the country for four years with no political experience whatsoever.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
How dare you tell me that you can't achieve your dreams? It's just not true. And that's why, in fact, let me apologize to you. Because somebody put that there.
::Pat McCalla
yeah.
::Pat McCalla
You know,
::Pat McCalla
you talked about identity several times. Two here, which I think, again, is probably the core of our issues, both positive and negative. Right.
::Pat McCalla
Where does identity play into all of this?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Were born on this earth to do a certain thing that we believe.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
What happens? Maybe over here you throw a ballpark. You know, we used to kick a ball back to England. Johnny, what do you want to be? I want to be a pilot. What about you, Billy? I want to be a doctor. What happened to them? Dreams.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I'll tell you. They were kicked out of us by a family and friends. That was a stupid rabbit. You come from the project, you can't be a doctor. How stupid. It's not trained enough. So they go. So once you find your identity, especially after addiction, depression, PTSD, the identity snatched away from you because the identity becomes less than alcohol, PTSD, or whatever is the identity stack.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
We see this a lot in. Married couples are split up. The woman has lost her identity, so she's left with nothing. Once you start to find who you are, what you are capable of doing, and what your niche is in life, you become a very powerful person. Those people, when they find that out, back away. Oh no, don't stop it.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Everybody listening to this right now is a natural born leader. You're not listening to this by mistake. 60 to 63 years on this earth. I'm telling you, I'm guaranteeing this. Guys, if you think you fell on this podcast by mistake,
::Dr. Robb Kelly
are mistaken.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And I can tell you that you meant to hear this stuff. When there's one person, all of you need to hear this stuff because I'm talking to you, that if I can save a life and change your life, jump down.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
You have to see me have a size. Oh, please, if you can be a patient. I don't give a shit about why I've enough patients, enough money, why they would do this. It's my job. It's my job
::Dr. Robb Kelly
to come on you and change somebody, man, because everybody's capable of doing that. And a lot of it is subliminal work.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Once you know how subliminal work happens. For instance, there's a guy that used to come eight years ago, Dallas guy, cowboy hat stereotype, Dallas Cowboy loves his doctor Pepper all the time. When you guys have the college first appointment, there's a girl we set up across the road with the Dallas Cowboys show. As he walks into reception. There's a guy there drinking Coca Cola.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Stay with the guys. Okay? And they're in the in the elevator going up. There's another guy with a cowboy hat. And then as he gets in, he orders, is a normal drink. You know, you're not acknowledging that illustrate, doctor. That's. He's drinking two cups now, and we take him out and we drive around for a bit. Can we take your arm, Johnny, for it?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yeah, of course you can. We pass three billboards. We pass the guy on the side road with a Coca Cola sign that he didn't even say subliminal. He gets back in the office now. He feels comfortable because he's cowboys. Said things around him that he's not really seen. Now. He's comfortable, ready to do some business. But when he walks in, he ordered a lot of Coca Cola.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Why? Because the subliminal messages, we just changed it. I will stand the guy a couple months ago even. Where you going? To have quite a steakhouse. You like steak? Lovesick. So I did some subliminal work with him. During that hour. He goes to the restaurant I write down in an envelope. I sign the bottle and give it to his wife and said, don't open that until you finished eating yours.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Any orders? Fish
::Dr. Robb Kelly
that you want. Fish you can actually fish. They open the envelope. He will eat fish tonight. So the subliminal work changes and pretends even that you can do something. And so you believe you can do something and you get enough people around you. How do we know this again? How can can one person change nine people?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
No. Can nine people change one person? We got nine actors in the way to one day. This is our research around how the people you hang around are very important. And one patient that we come in will give you a free session. So she comes in, there's nine actors there. She thinks the patients are all sat down every 45 seconds and a buzzer went.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
All the actors stood up a couple of seconds, sat down again. She's unfold, Happens again. It won't stop now. She. The phone's gone down and she's looking at everybody. Third, she stands up with everybody else. Then she sits down, which was interesting. Looked at this as we called the actors in as patients one by one. She's there on our arm, sat down.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
She stood up. That's a subliminal reason around how we can affect another person. Show me your friends. I'll show you future. If you hang around and depressed people, you will become the 10th. That's how it works. The subliminal messages and the behavioral science behind who we are and identity. Hang around the guys that you want to be and never be the smartest guy in the room.
::Pat McCalla
Wow.
::Pat McCalla
Yeah, man, I love what you're saying. In my 20s, I was a teacher and a coach, and I would always tell my students, you show me the five people that you hang out with, and I'll show you who you're going to be in two years. And that's what you're saying
::Pat McCalla
is subliminal work and the subconscious. Is that the same thing or those interchangeable words or ideas?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yeah, well, what you do in these is.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I'll give you an idea. For instance, you planted stuff in the in the conscious brain. So most of the idea for a prefrontal cortex for an idea goes straight to the subconscious brain by this year, because we've not done our morning work. So the this guys want in the show okay.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
With subliminal message. You so normal messaging. So he goes in the subconscious with the subliminal message. He goes into conscious brain messed up a little bit. So when he goes into conscious brain it becomes an action. Because you're living in the now with the conscious brain. So let's say for instance the fish. So I'm going to plant fish in your head without you knowing.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
So I'm going to stop talking halfway through the session. And what I'm going to do is as a coach running and I mentioned fish and now, you know, hopefully you've heard. And because my voice has gone up so the level speed up to that point, I did a nice fish. And if you listen to the so you forgot about the fish, but it jumps in the conscious brains when you make a decisions based on that subliminal word or senses that you've planted in the conscious brain.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
So you order the fish, and I've no idea why you think it's okay. I'm just going to go with it now. Open the freaking envelope. How did I know? Subliminal work.
::Pat McCalla
That is mind blowing. That is mind blowing. So, so,
::Pat McCalla
Rob, how does you believe in God now?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yes, yes.
::Pat McCalla
How does your belief in God then fit with this work you're doing? How do those fit together? I'm assuming they're they're connected deeply.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Well, we believe that we're born with belly button, with bellies in your pathways and got planted in there from birth. The ways we want. We don't connect it with what God wants is because of the trauma, the fear, the resentment and all that stuff. So God helps connect them to what he was always meant to be. Babies are born with two fears, Pat fear of falling and the fear of loud noises.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
The rest are manmade, which your father gets home if you don't pass that exam. Bias is what it is man. God once is free,
::Pat McCalla
And then you think about in in the Bible how many times he said, fear not, fear not, fear not. Fear not what you're saying. So.
::Pat McCalla
two fears is a is a little baby. We have
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yeah.
::Pat McCalla
other fears we carry with today have been learned behavior. At some
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Correct,
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Learn behaves in a measured.
::Pat McCalla
the second one?
::Pat McCalla
Explain that second one.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
A measurement where you can. You can pass the oppression down to your kids if you're depressed all the time is not learned behaviors and actions. So that's a measurement. When we picked up you see a measurable child go about the passage of measurement. You say happy child, go back. And parents are like me and you.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
They're happy every day making things happen. It's all down to that learn behavior, a measurement that we carry through from childhood. Like we did a research paper back in back in England when I was living there. And the idea was how powerful a subliminal message is, or direct messages to a head of authority. So we went in a school when I was at Oxford, went into a school that my friend knew and said son had mastered.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
We got a crazy thing. Headmaster, we've created me and Rob this test and, the students can do it ages 8 to 11, whatever they want. And we'll tell you the next day, the top two, top three people in your class. At the age of young youngsters, who's going to change the world, who's going to be captains of industry, who's.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And he said, it's impossible. I said, I know, right? What can we try it? And it's been done before. He said, yeah, you can try it. So we way next day we handed these exams out, these test papers and the kids fell demand and we took a bag and next day we come in and said, hey, it's belly, belly yet.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Belly. Are you sure? Yeah. Kelly Smith okay. Jenny, are you sure you got this right? Jenny and Peter. Oh, yeah, I can see Peter. Yeah. Okay. We'll be back in two years time, but there you are. Three guys going to change the world, become captains of industry. Do you understand that? They said, yeah. Went back a year to the day me and my friend.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And we said to the headmaster, what's going on with our kids? Oh my God, we need to take this to the government. I've told I don't know how how well, you explain how you knew from that little test and how so we said, well, actually, when we left the school with the test papers, we put them in the in the trash can and we picked three random names out.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And because you treated a like superheroes, so they become.
::Pat McCalla
So it had nothing to do with the testing. You were just subliminally, in a sense, helping the headmaster.
::Pat McCalla
And how he was going to treat these three individuals for the next 12 months.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Because it was a different teacher Kelly over there. He's the one that's going to be. So she treated him like that. So it goes back to who you surround yourself. And now
::Dr. Robb Kelly
you know, it's very, very, very important who you surround yourself with. I know, and that's all the stuff we're into. So again, guys listening help me to be a
::Dr. Robb Kelly
here.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
But your first response is that's bullshit. That's not, trust me, coke over me. All this is true. It's a new neuroscience. We're changing the world with daily basis. The 92 a friend of mine is going straight to JFK to change the health. All of that stuff's happened in the background over here because, you know, you can change you if you got 2 or 3 people or millionaires who he's treating you as if you are, then guess what?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
You can become a millionaire now. I always thought money was everything. You know
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I said to my wife when I moved over here. We met about three years after I was over and I said, you know something? I was out in the industry. I see now, see if you can get like 20 grand in the savings.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I'll be happy. So I started to come back into the industry straight. It was a freak thing and then I said, listen, 100 grand, okay, 100 grand in the bank and I will never worry about money. And what done kind of grand just got a half a million, a million, 10 million. You have a dozen doesn't. You know, I thought it was still childhood trauma that didn't fill his hole.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I'm still there. And until that's gone and gone for me was replaced. Gary, I came out of this $5 million house, and I had, offices in Highland Park, paid $1 million for what they thought was crazy. I drove them a brand new Porsche 911 and, which cost a fortune. I had a original watch, that cost 150,000.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I was the most miserable person in the world.
::Pat McCalla
Wow.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I take a close look at myself, and I realize the money buys you a couple of things. It buys you space, and he buys you food. It does not buy anything else. And telling you that. So you could say, I go through life like this. I got me, my wife, three English bulldogs and a cat.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
You can take everything away tomorrow. Put us on a tent in the middle of the field, downtown Dallas, and I'll be as happy then as I am now. There's nothing I own now that I can't walk away from. And so I was nothing.
::Pat McCalla
But it took some work to get there.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
It took a lot of work to get the whole lot. Because I wanted you to know how good now, how much money.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I want you to know that I'm important. I want you to know. You know, look at this. Look, I wanted you to know. Do you know why? Because I grew up in fricking poverty, that's why. And I never had anything. I was looked down on and spots. I was homeless and people were sick, and I'm sorry. Sorry is a sorry word.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I wanted you to know how well I was doing. Nobody frickin cares.
::Pat McCalla
This goes back to being a people pleaser,
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I
::Pat McCalla
care. Yeah,
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I used to drive around AA like, like 4 to 5 times, waiting for that front spot to become empty. I'll be there an hour. I want to come empty things are this brand new Mercedes. And, nobody cares what fricking car I drive. The guys are scribbling for, like, get a cigaret off each other. Don't gives a shit about what I'm driving.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I was still desperate. Just. Just like me. Because. Look, I'm one of you now, guys. You know, it doesn't work like that. And.
::Pat McCalla
Doctor. Rob, I have to be sensitive of your time. I know you have a patient coming in soon, so we're going to wrap this up. I could talk to you for another couple of hours, I think.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Me too.
::Pat McCalla
how does our audience get Ahold of you or look up what you're doing? You've talked a couple of times about. Hey, research me. Look at it. Where do we send them?
::Dr. Robb Kelly
So again, guys, if you're listening to my name, two BS, there's a story behind that as well. Rob klfy.com is the website and doctor Rob Kelly in any search engine, if you come on and say you hit me on the patio and then I'm going to say I've got like ten of these to give away. So don't buy it off Amazon.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Let me know it was on this show. I'll sign it personally. Say I'll pay the shipping and out we go.
::Pat McCalla
That's perfect. We'll take you up on that challenge. So if our audience reaches out to you, say we heard you on the No Gray Areas podcast, with with Pat McCullough. You're going to give them one of those books.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
And I give you one of the box. And if you San Antonio, I'm going to put you on nine for free.
::Pat McCalla
Okay, I love it, I love it. Well, this is one of my favorite parts of the podcast. Two truths and a lie. We call it no gray areas. I'm going to ask you to lie on a no gray areas podcast. You're going to give me three statements. Two are true. One is a lie. I got to try to figure out the lie.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
I was a bass player, Abbey road, and played with Queen and Elton John. Number one. Number two. I used to drive a, a car, which was like a mouse because it was a chrome. So it had big ears on the top and and, whiskers on the bottom. Okay. I've owned a Rolls-Royce.
::Pat McCalla
goodness. Those are good ones. Okay,
::Pat McCalla
I'm going to say the Rolls Royce one, based on what you said earlier is true. That's
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yes.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yes.
::Pat McCalla
Okay, I got a: ::Pat McCalla
I got to go with the bass player being true because that's so far out
::Dr. Robb Kelly
All right, all right.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Yeah. Ready? Absolutely. Ready. Yeah. Absolutely.
::Pat McCalla
Doctor Rubicon, I want to be. I know you got a patient you got to jump with. This has been unbelievable. I'm going to look you up when I come to San Antonio. We're going to grab some fish and chips at your restaurant. I want to keep learning from you. Thank you. Thank you for sharing with our audience today.
::Dr. Robb Kelly
Now, cause my pleasure, guys. Going to see you today, guys.
::Host
fascinating conversation that was with doctor Rob Kelly. Don't forget, Doctor Kelly is giving away free copies of his book to the few lucky listeners. So be sure to shoot him a message at addiction underscore doctor on Instagram. That's at addiction. Underscore doctor on Instagram. We'll see you next time.
